2 Samuel 12: 8 Commentary

THE LORD GIVETH BUT THE BEAST AND ITS IMAGES TAKETH AWAY…
“The Lord giveth, the government taketh away.”

THUS SAITH THE LORD :

And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

BUT THE ANTICHRIST & ITS GOVERNMENT FOOLISHLY FORBIDS OR MAKES IT HARD:

“Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges.”
“(The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.)”
-Cornelius Tacitus-
(55-117 A.D.)

Daniel 7:25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his …
bible.cc/daniel/7-25.htmAnd he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws:

Revelation 13:4 Men worshiped the dragon …And they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to wage war against him?

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/17/2012 13:50 pm

COULD WHAT GOD SAID TO DAVID BE WRONG? COULD THIS BE THE ANSWER TO OUR PROBLEMS THAT PLAGUE OUR WAYWARD SOCIETIES?

Source of article: http://patriarchsjournal.wordpress.com/

I’ll have to admit I had severe reservations as I sat down and watched Lisa Ling’s Our America episode on plural marriage. I mean what kind of crazy person would purposely allow their spouse to engage in relations with another woman. And how selfish those men must be to try and have their cake and eat it too. But as I watched the episode I realized something. The people, at least in the community Ling was interviewing, are really truly committed to each and every person in the relationship. The wives seem to form emotional bonds and friendships with each other and often spend more time together than with their husband.

And here’s something that really took me by surprise, it’s the women that actually control the relationship, they get to decide what man they are going to marry and it’s up to the elders to make it happen. As I watched the interviews I discovered that plural marriage isn’t necessarily something that should be shunned, it could possibly be a way to balance and possibly decrease the rate of divorce in America.

I know you are probably thinking I’m crazy right now, but hear me out for just a second.

It is estimated that roughly 30 to 60% of all married individuals (in the United States) will engage in some form of infidelity at some point throughout their marriage and that 2-3% of all children are the product of infidelity (source: Buss and Shackelford).

The U.S. Census Bureau in November 2009, estimates that there are approximately 13.7 million single parents in the United States today and those parents are responsible for raising 21.8 million children (that’s about 26% of children under 21 in the U.S. today).

U.S. News and World Report magazine reports that one-third of children born today are illegitimate and half of those children live in poverty.

In a plural marriage no one is left alone to raise their children as a single parent because if the husband isn’t around, the wives still have each other to help raise and support their children, both financially and emotionally. You have a support system at ALL times, not just on a court ordered schedule.

Legalizing plural marriage can potentially reduce the divorce rate and decrease the amount of single-parent households and most important, may even reduce the amount of illegitimate children born in the United States.

What would you do if plural marriage became legal in the United States? Keep in mind that for every 100 single women of marriageable age in the United States there are fewer than 70 single men, and as we get older the numbers spread further apart. That means statistically if marriage is still considered only a monogamous relationship, there will always be more women than men which probably means there will always be infidelity in what we are calling monogamous relationships.

Do you think the government should reconsider their stance on plural marriage? Could this be a way to save the American family?

Stephanie Elie
BizzieLiving.com
Lifetime Moms
December 12, 2011

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/5/2012 00:25 am

God Gave David His Wives
Source: http://www.christianpoly.org/david.php

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob can do no evil. He can do no sin. That is a part of His very nature. If having more than one wife is evil then Yahweh God helped David to sin. Yahweh spoke through Nathan the prophet to David in the following verse.

2 Samuel 12:8

“And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.”

So here we have God telling David that he would have given David more wives if he had asked for them.

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 4/20/2012 16:56 pm

Roland G. I don’t think a babe can see the connections!

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 4/16/2012 12:43 pm

Tiuche (Post #42): Howard Zinn opposed government. He favored civil disobedience contrary to God’s Word (1 Pet. 2:13). He is not a good read for believers in God’s Word.

_____________
By the way, Howard’s quote has nothing to do with 2 Sam. 12:8. You were better off posting Bob Dylan lyrics.

By Roland G (wrote 1651 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 4/15/2012 22:20 pm

ARE YOU A REFORMER FOR THE TRUTH OF GOD as revealed from 2 Samuel 12:8 and other similar verses? Are you like MARTIN LUTHER the reformer? See Previous posts.

Here is a quote from Howard Zinn to wake us up:

The challenge remains. On the other side are formidable forces: money, political power, the major media. On our side are the people of the world and a power greater than money or weapons: the truth.
Truth has a power of its own. Art has a power of its own. That age-old lesson – that everything we do matters – is the meaning of the people’s struggle here in the United States and everywhere. A poem can inspire a movement. A pamphlet can spark a revolution. Civil disobedience can arouse people and provoke us to think, when we organize with one another, when we get involved, when we stand up and speak out together, we can create a power no government can suppress. We live in a beautiful country. But people who have no respect for human life, freedom, or justice have taken it over. It is now up to all of us to take it back.”
― Howard Zinn, A Power Governments Cannot Suppress

http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/1899.Howard_Zinn

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 4/15/2012 03:28 am

Roland G. So you are more learned than the Reformer Martin Luther! That is good for a BABY!

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/24/2012 02:52 am

Tiuche (Post #39): The answer to a man who cannot have children with his wife is not to keep adding spouses until he does. Martin Luther gave the childless Prince bad advice.

By Roland G (wrote 1651 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/23/2012 21:24 pm

THIS IS ONE VERSE DISPROVING THE “SHOULD BE MONOGAMY DOCTRINE FOR ALL MEN”-it disproves that it is a sin for a man to have several wives!

Martin Luther said: “…for the Gospel hath neither recalled nor forbid what was permitted in the law of Moses with respect to marriage.”

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/23/2012 14:33 pm

GOD SAYS TO DAVID I GAVE YOU YOUR MASTER WIVES!
Source of excerpt below: http://www.christianmarriage.com/home/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=127

Say What?: Marriage & Martin Luther
Posted by: Pastor_Don_Milton on Jan 24, 2008 - 09:49 PM
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Martin Luther often put a political spin on religious ideas as you will see from reading the following letter in which he and his fellow theologians gave consent to a polygamous marriage. I have only included the last portion of that letter as it includes the sections where Luther and his fellow theologians gave their approval of that polygamous marriage. The letter was written and signed by Luther and other well known theologians of the reformation, some of whom attended the marriage as well. Enjoy reading.

XXI. But after all, if your Highness is fully resolved to marry a second wife, we judge it ought to be done secretly, as we have said with respect to the dispensation demanded on the same account, that is, that none but the person you shall wed, and a few trusty persons, know of the matter, and they, too, obliged to secrecy under the seal of confession. Hence no contradiction nor scandal of moment is to be apprehended ; for it is no extraordinary thing for Princes to keep concubines; and though the vulgar should be scandalized thereat, the more intelligent would doubt of the truth, and prudent persons would approve of this moderate kind of life, preferably to adultery, and other brutal actions. There is no need of being much concerned for what men will say, provided all goes right with conscience. So far do we approve it, and in those circumstances only by us specified ; for the Gospel hath neither recalled nor forbid what was permitted in the law of Moses with respect to marriage. Jesus Christ has not changed the external economy, but added justice only, and life everlasting, for reward. He teaches the true way of obeying God, and endeavors to repair the corruption of nature.

XXII. Your Highness hath therefore, in this writing, not only the approbation [approval] of us all, in case of necessity, concerning what you desire, but also the reflections we have made thereupon; we beseech you to weigh them, as becoming a virtuous, wise, and Christian Prince. We also beg of God to direct all for his glory and your Highness’s salvation.

XXIII. As to your Highness’s thought of communicating this affair to the emperor before it be concluded, it seems to us that this Prince counts adultery among the lesser sort of sins ; and it is very much to be feared lest his faith being of the same stamp with that of the Pope, the Cardinals, the Italians, the Spaniards, and the Saracens, he make light of your Highness’s proposal, and turn it to his own advantage by amusing your Highness with vain words. We know he is deceitful and perfidious, and as nothing of the German in him.

XXIV. Your Highness sees, that he uses no sincere endeavor to redress the grievances of Christendom; that he leaves the Turk unmolested, and labors for nothing but to divide the empire, that he may raise up the house of Austria on its ruins. It is therefore very much to be wished that no Christian Prince would give into his pernicious schemes. May God preserve your Highness. We are most ready to serve your Highness.

Given at Wittenberg the Wednesday after the feast of Saint Nicholas, 1539. Your Highness’s most humble, and most obedient subjects and servants,

MARTIN LUTHER. PHILIP MELANCTHON. MARTIN BUCER. ANTONY CORVIN. ADAM. JOHN LENINGUE. JUSTUS WlNTFERTE. DENIS MELANTHER.

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 2/3/2012 12:56 pm

Angel: Since you insist that polygamy is a sin,could you please answer my questions on 2 Samuel 12:8…stick to this verse and question and DO NOT DIGRESS! Remember you are nearing 40 years old now…and it is the time of testing!

1).Tell us who was the prophet who spoke this Word?
2). Tell us whose Word this verse really is?
3). To whom was it address?
4). Why was it address to him? What was his sins here?
5). What is the difference between his having many wives and the adding of Bathsheba as his wife?
6). What was it that God is telling King David in this verse?

Answer the questions that truthfully… if you answer in order to mislead then that is sin! You want to be keep on the dark by rambling with nonsense just to tickle your own ego-like a puff-up child! So please answer honestly and carefully!

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 1/27/2012 15:05 pm

tiuche:

i fully grasp what is taking place here in the book of 2 samuel.

as for sin; sin is sin; and we need to learn to stop trying to classify it, stop trying to categorize it, and stop trying to put a measure of how bad each sin is.

it’s all sin and it’s all great before the eyes of GOD.

and as for the definition of adultery and fornication; i know and understand them both from GOD’S view of them and not man’s definition of them.

and as you stated to me in another scripture of samuel to verify the acceptance of polygamy from GOD; i will never practice nor partake of polygamy; for it is not of GOD.

but as for yourself and others its your choice.

and i shall pray for you all; and if i am wrong; then i know there are those praying for me.

and if it is GOD’S TRUTH; then we all shall find GOD’S TRUTH for he shall reveal it to us all; for GOD’S HOLY LIVING WORD can never be divided from his truth.

one word, one body, one mind, one voice.

By angel (wrote 400 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 1/27/2012 08:41 am

Angel: I don’t think you really understand 2 Samuel 12:8. Neither do you understand what is ADULTERY or FORNICATION! Your explanation is like a square peg in a round hole!

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 1/25/2012 10:44 am

TIUCHE:

king david was a symbol and a type/shadow; being used here for believers; to see the end of days and how it was to be in the kingdom of heaven as the true sons and daughters reigning with their king; our LORD JESUS CHRIST.

ONE bridegroom and ONE BRIDE ( which is singular ); from across the world.

just as GOD told the jews he was giving them a paper of divorce and was to take on a new BRIDE (once again singular ) for his son; our LORD JESUS CHRIST.

LETS SEE WHAT GOD SAYS ABOUT THOSE WHO SHALL INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

1 CORINTHIANS 6:9-10:
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

GALATIANS 5:19-21:
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

REVELATION 21:8:
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

as for the patriarchs; did you not read; that our LORD JESUS CHRIST went to hell and brought forth; adam to john the baptist out of the depths of hell; for the redeemer had came and made all wrongs right from the very beginning even unto now.

but now; we have no excuses; for GOD’S TRUTH has been told and stood back then and even stands now up to the fulfillment of the consummation and is even established within the new earth and the new heavenly kingdom.

By angel (wrote 400 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 1/24/2012 23:18 pm

Angel: YOU SAID:there’s a place for polygamist’s and it’s called HELL.

You puff-up kid stop your ignorant ranting or your someone will spank you for your childishness! So POLYGAMIST ARE GOING TO HELL?

So when you the favorite kid of our Father inherit the Kingdom of God you will not see me there for I am a polygamist by heart! You will not see many of the biblical Patriarchs: DAVID, MOSES, ABRAHAM. SOLOMON, ELKANAH, CALEB, GIDEON…

While stating that POLYGAMIST are destined for hell you never try to understand WHO SAID and WHAT is being spoken in 2 Samuel 12:8 whereof you commented in ignorance!

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 1/20/2012 11:36 am

that’s funny… earthly man accepts anything cause they are cowards and want what they want. i stand by GOD and i would of told the mayor’s son the same thing. there’s a place for polygamist’s and it’s called HELL.

stand before GOD and argue about polygamy… FOR IT IS OF THE DEVIL. can one say ADULTERY or FORNICATION.

so many christians blinded and deaf and want to hear and believe what they want and call it GOD’S WILL… please that’s blasphemy.

By angel (wrote 400 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 1/20/2012 02:26 am

A POLYGAMIST PUNCHES AN IMMORAL MANIAC AND CASTIGATES A RADIO NEWSCASTER

A friend told me what happened to a polygamist who was the son of a mayor:

The polygamist was a son of a Mayor of a certain city in the Philippines. And this guy took his MISTRESS in one of the hotel of the city. One hotel worker seeing that the mistress oozed with sexual appeal led them into a hotel room where he had a prepared peeping hole.

So when the couple was already in the room and the sexy mistress was taking a bath; the woman noticed that someone was peeping on them. Secretly telling her lover-the son of the mayor, the poor peeping tom was caught red handed. The son of the mayor punched him and kicked the poor peeping man till the management of the hotel managed to peacefully calm the angry rich polygamist.

When the media got hold of the story-it was scandal time. They feasted like wild hens clacking all around. One “brave” announcer courageously castigated in the air the “abusive & sexually immoral polygamist”. In a “righteous” voice sounding with passion he loudly trumpeted: “You abuse the poor because you are rich! WHAT WILL YOU DO WHEN YOUR WIFE KNOWS ABUT THIS MISTRESS OF YOURS OH SON OF THE MAYOR?” Better watch out! Better not cry when your wife hears of this! You have the nerve to abuse the poor hotel employee because you are the son of the mayor? You got no shame protecting your mistress when everybody know she is a woman of ill repute! Shame on you! Call us if you are brave, will put this live on the air!” Thus did the radio “Wakwak” announcer did as he inflamed the news the more for his interested listeners.

Just then the radio station phone rang! It was live! Do you know who called? It was the shameless Polygamist-the son of the mayor. The man blurted out angrily:

“YOU IDIOTIC ANNOUNCER! DO MY WIFE KNOW i HAVE A MISTRESS? YES, SHE KNOWS AND I AM NOT AFRAID OF HER IN CASE YOU DO NOT KNOW! AND WOULD MY WIFE LEAVE ME BECAUSE OF MY MISTRESS? NO, SHE WON’T BECAUSE SHE KNOWS I LOVE HER AND OUR KIDS!”

“I ASKED YOU ….YOU STUPID ANNOUNCER…IF IT WAS YOUR GIRLFRIEND THAT….THAT MANIAC PEEPING TOM..PEEPED ON WHAT WOULD YOU DO? IF IT WAS YOUR WIFE THAT HE PEEPED ON…WHAT WILL YOU DO? WON’T YOU PUNCHED THE MAN THAT DOES THAT? WON’T YOU EVEN KILL HIM? THAT MANIAC SHOULD BE THANKFUL THAT I DID NOT SHOOT HIM!

“AND WHAT DO YOU THINK MY MISTRESS IS?IS SHE NOT MY 2ND WIFE? YOU DARE TO CALL HER A WOMAN OF ILL REPUTE? IF WE SUE YOU IN COURT WILL YOU BE ABLE TO AFFORD THE EXPENSES? NOW IF YOU WON’T ASKED FOR FORGIVENESS IN THE AIR…WE GONNA SUE YOU…LET US SEE IF YOU CAN AFFORD THE EXPENSES! I AM GIVING YOU THE CHANCE TO ASK APOLOGY TO US RIGHT NOW…IF NOT i WILL SEE WHAT I WILL DO TO YOU AND TO THAT MANIAC WHO STARTED ALL OF THIS!”

And so the “peewees” made a public apology to the mayor son, to his wife and kids and his mistress!

Lessons? When a man is right, no amount of debate can overturn his words! No matter how many are for what they falsely believed is, the truth will always come out! You see in our place and almost in every place of the world except in the Muslim worlds…a mistress is always looked down as an ill repute woman whom every male could just snatch and have sexed with! What a sick false conception of a mistress which means my beloved. Rachel was a mistress of Jacob…the Queen of Sheba was a mistress of King Solomon.Queen Esther was a mistress of the king too… How many mistress did Moses have? How many mistress did Elkanah have?

So who is shameful a polygamist, a mistress or those whose mind are darkened by the god of this world-prince of the power of the air? What darkness!

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 1/19/2012 12:21 pm

Tractorman: In post#3 of 1 Chronicle 14,

You said: David DID take on MORE wives - but do you EVER read where this ended up ‘happily ever after’? I don’t read ANYWHERE in scripture where this was the case - all I ever see is COMPROMISE and JEALOUSY…

My comment: If polygamy read(polygyny) is not a sin against God and some of the families of those practicing it did not end up “happily ever after”, what does that make polygyny? Would that make it then a sin?

If the families of those practicing monogamy ended up in divorce or in a disaster would that make monogamy a sin?

What am driving at is this, let us not declare what is not sin in God’s sight as a sin, lest we be found as liars! And our Father in heaven does not tell lies…it is only the father of lies that is a liar. So acknowledge God in all your ways and lean not on your understanding…

You said: Please let me know where polygamy is COMMANDED, MANDATED or ENCOURAGED either in the Gospels or the Epistles… and especially with regards to GENTILE-believers to follow suit !!!

My comment: God is silent on the matter. God had allowed us the freedom of the life we want whether we remain single, married to one wife or married to several wives. When men makes laws to force everyone to have no wife-that is blaspheming God; when they make laws to force everyone to have many wives-that is blaspheming God; and when they make laws forcing everyone to have only one wife-THAT IS BLASPHEMING GOD! It is setting themselves up higher than their creator.

And the forcing of everyone to have only one wife-had already been done and is still on going today. Our Lord Jesus has this to say:

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 1/14/2012 03:14 am

WHY IS “SHOULD-BE” MONOGAMY A CAUSE OF THE DECADENCE OF MARRIAGE AND SOCIETY? SOURCE:http://www.patriarchywebsite.com/monogamy/mono-is.htm

Briefly, the cause of marital and societal decadence is inherent in the philosophy and practice of modern “should-be” monogamy which creates and promotes the sentiment that there must be only one wife at any one time and that she must be exclusive. That simple. There can be no other, for she has exclusive possession of her husband and this exclusive possession of him inherently and subtly gives her the right into almost every aspect of his life, even to possess him from his other close ones, including the in-laws, close friends, and almost anything. She inevitably possesses him from what he may have to do for his God and from his rightful standing before Him. Whether if all these are driven by her fear, insecurity, selfishness, bondage or anything else, it’s immaterial. In the name of the love that is due to her, in the name of having to be sensitive to her needs, happiness and feelings, she is to be appeased before anything else can go smoothly. Her needs, desires, fancy, feelings, likes and dislikes, thus her consent and the consideration of her becomes more important than God or the needs of His Kingdom.

As long as she remains unhappy about anything that he has to do, or unconvinced about the way he does it, he remains unrested, crippled and imprisoned, for this is the way he is taught by the preacher and the culture to love his wife as such a “good” husband. But subtly, she has become an idol, if not the god of his life – the ultimate determining factor, the final influence and actual decision-maker. I am not saying that women seek to be evil, to be possessive or to replace God. What I am saying is that this sentiment is promoted and endorsed in the deceived “should-be” monogamy theology that grooms and empowers her to be so. I do not blame the woman as much as I would blame the weak woman-beholden man who idolizes her to be so. Yet the more to be blamed is the man-fearing Pharisee who stands at the altar, and in the name of God, promotes this sentiment by declaring this pagan Roman originated “should-be” monogamy as holiness and as the only scriptural form of marriage without thoroughly searching the scriptures!

By this I say that it is impossible for modern theology to produce men of God like Abraham who gave his son to God without first consulting Sarah. Even if he had (as one might contend), which man as such, if he had done so against his wife’s wishes, would be vindicated by modern theology to be godly? No, for in most cases, he will be judged as an irresponsible and insensitive husband and father. All such kind of men would be branded as unscrupulous and unscriptural. But I still contend that even if Abraham had informed or discussed with Sarah, he was not seeking her consent or approval. It would be wrong and irresponsible to impose upon her to make this very difficult decision with him! Only a weak man would do that.

But have we not been told all the time not to act on anything significant until she is consulted and her consent given? I am not saying that it is wrong to inform or discuss with her. I am saying it is wrong that she must always be consulted or be appeased first. Did I use the word “consult”? Yes, that’s what men have always been taught by “should-be” monogamy theology, to consult and to appease rather than to discuss and take responsibility as the final decision maker and head of the house. And I therefore conclude that the “should-be” monogamy theology cannot produce patriarchal men who seek to please God and heed His voice before that of their wives’. Not because the women are the cause, but rather they are taught and groomed by this “should-be” monogamy theology to be so. Be patient. Let me proceed further and make it clearer.

THE ROLE REVERSAL
Let me continue, and further paint a typical scenario that is common in the “should-be” monogamous culture. Because it is taught that we must love our wives, to win their heart and willingness and for peace and harmony in the home and marriage, we should seek their consent and approval in all matters. Whether it’s out of the need to please above any other things or it’s out of an inability to carry manly responsibilities, this act cause her to assume more responsibilities. And whether out of necessity or not, she very often ends up assuming authority and ultimately playing the major part in decision-making. All this eventually necessitates equal status, equal say and equal power in all things. The union becomes an unnatural, unwieldy body with 2 heads and is subtly expressed in an innocent loving term, “my the other half” or “she is the neck that turns the head”. All these demand a sharing and relinquishing of the man’s responsibility and authority as head. Not that women should have absolutely no responsibility and authority, but the marriage is no longer a scriptural God-ordained relationship of head and body, but one of equal partners, or one dominated by a woman figure that an irresponsible or weak man may secretly enjoy. Whatever each case may be, it is something that all men will eventually be frustrated with, having lost the manliness given by God and such arrangement is a sure breeding ground for hurts and marital disasters. This is anti-patriarchy and anti-Kingdom, thus anti-God. Yet all these seem good in the beginning, with no definable roles but a lot of giving and sharing with one another. Romantic love is blind, but not for long.

THE REALIZATION
As time passes, when the “honeymoon” is over and the search for true identity and true fulfillment begins, differing views and wrong role-play become an issue, and many times resulting in severe conflicts. The more she has to assume responsibilities and tasks beyond that which is ordained of a woman, the more frustrated, unfulfilled, insecure and empty she becomes. So the more desperately she possesses and controls her man. The more he gives in and let go, either because of irresponsibility or the need to appease her, the more responsibility she has to assume, and the more bitter and frustrated she becomes. This resentment or simmering anger will be reflected in her disposition towards him. Until both begin to question the reason to stay married to each other. They no longer appeal to one another. He feels imprisoned and robbed and she feels exploited. The vicious cycle continues, until love and bliss are turned into suppressed hurts and bitterness or else hate and feuds. These are the inevitable results.

THE FALLEN NATURE PROMOTED IN “SHOULD-BE” MONOGAMY
Is this the kind that God intends marriage to be? No, of course not. Is this entirely her fault? No, but rather more of his fault. He has given away his God-ordained manhood. The failure to give her manly firmness makes her feel insecure. The failure to assume responsibility makes her feel unloved. But does he love her? Yes, he truly does. He fails not because he does not love her, but because he is roman-tic and has made her the center of his life. He is not patriarchal, for God’s Kingdom is not the priority, but she is. In love, there is an inherent desire to see her pleased and happy, but romantic self-love would idolize her and give her all she wants, for in the process, she reciprocates with her love, thus he finds her pleasing and peaceable, and is gratified by her. The more she is pleased and idolized, the more she will gratify him. The reverse is also true, that when she is no longer the priority, the relationship will become contentious and it will no longer be a loving one. This is pagan Romanism, the worship of roman-tic love where this love is exalted above all other things for the relationship to be endearing. To be romantic, anything else and everything else must be secondary. The more romantic, the more exclusive she must be. It is nothing but self-centeredness. And this of course, all truly spiritual people know is of the devil! It is the worship of the love goddess. But generally, people easily see this in others and not in themselves.

THE MID-LIFE CRISIS
This man-woman love worship is a temptation and a pitfall common to all marriages since Adam, no matter in what form. But it is specially justified and promoted in the exclusivity of “should-be” monogamy, where she has to be the only one to be exclusively pleased above anybody and anything else. That’s the sentiment of being romantic and special. But this itself becomes an abuse of woman, for she is encouraged to be idolized, self-centered and possessive, and pampered into vanity and worthlessness. For in becoming such a woman, she soon becomes boring, possessive and demanding, and everything pleasurable about her quickly vanish. And in many cases, she becomes an undesirable element that is to be discarded for he not only finds no more pleasure in pleasing her, he finds her a load and a burden, while she is equally frustrated with him for being irresponsible and weak. And both will begin to wonder what actually went wrong. This is termed “marital crisis” that commonly surfaces in mid-life, where each instinctively begins to take stock of what they have actually achieved in such a self-centered and worthless life. The imprisoned man (or even the woman) if desperate enough, will summon his last strength and grasp his last chance to break the bondage or suppression to start a new life if he has the means and the courage to do so. He needs to find a better meaning and purpose in life, which will only be found in Kingdom-principled Patriarchy. Hopefully, he will find it this time, but it is virtually non-existent in the “should-be” monogamy world.

THE SERIAL MONOGAMY OF “SHOULD-BE” MONOGAMY
The next evil of “should-be” monogamy is to license him with a divorce, for the “should-be” monogamy culture will not allow him to keep the first wife if he wills to take on another - a provision and a way out. Thus it now suits him to discard the old worn garment for a new and pleasing one. All other related issues, hurts and conflicts now freely surface and become good reasons to sanction a divorce. All these are but the by-products of an erroneous philosophy and theology that trap and imprison the society that accepts and worships it. The man now delights in his new love, new bliss and new hope only to see the next vicious cycle repeating itself again. The new one is again adored and idolized into a spoilt toy fitted for the garbage. This is a by-product of the “should-be” monogamy culture, which is a kind of serial monogamy that is not acceptable by God.

NO WOMAN IS REALLY SECURE IN THE “SHOULD-BE” MONOGAMY CULTURE
For good or bad reasons (mostly bad), there are more divorces, therefore more forsaken women and children in monogamous society than in any other. This is the by-product of the “should-be” monogamy. It is also the result of the law of sowing and reaping. The monogamous woman who rejects the other woman ends up being replaced by the other woman. In this respect, it is not wrong to assume that no woman in the “should-be” monogamous culture can truly feel secure. Instead of living in love and assurance, they live in insecurity, having to constantly cling to, watch and guard their men against their own kind – the other women. Interestingly, women in patriarchal polygamous marriages avert this pitfall by embracing the very seeming disadvantage of having to share and consider for one another.

Every disposed wife becomes another good case against men’s abuse of women, thus giving impetus to the feminism movement for women to defend themselves. But the marital failures are due to the vanity of her self, abuses of man’s self love, and both are not just condoned but exalted by wayward pagan “should-be” monogamy theology as holiness and righteousness. Sad to say but true, Biblical Patriarchy and Patriarchal Polygamy which seek to protect and provide for women are the ones that get the blame all the time.

CONCLUSION:

MONOGAMY IS OF GOD, BUT “SHOULD-BE” MONOGAMY AS THE ONLY RIGHT FORM OF MARRIAGE IS NOT OF GOD BUT OF PAGAN ROMAN-TIC TEACHINGS THAT IS DESTROYING THE WORLD AND THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

LET ME EXHORT YOU

If a man can lay down his life for others, he is patriarchal. If he is not patriarchal, he will live for himself. If he lives for himself, he will not live for you. So don’t be fooled by Roman-tic love. If a person is incapable of love and consideration for others, he will ultimately not love you more than he loves himself. For even if he appears to be so, he is doing it only for himself, which is still self-love. So don’t be fooled. For if he is capable of love and consideration for others, he is capable of truly loving you. That’s why Jesus said, “Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you.” (Mat 6:33)

PATRIARCHY IS IN CHRIST & CHRIST IS IN PATRIARCHY

THERE REMAINS 2 VITAL TRUTHS TO THIS ISSUE:

There are those who are called to monogamy while others are called to polygamy or celibacy. None should in any way discriminate or exalt itself against the others. Monogamy is not in anyway more superior or holier than polygamy just as celibacy is to monogamy. The answer is be poly-positive and receive others just as you want others to receive you.

Whatever form you take or are convinced of as best for yourself, be patriarchal in that God and his Kingdom must be in first priority in all things in your life. So if you are called to be monogamous, stay monogamous and be patriarchally monogamous, by putting God and His Kingdom first before your wife and God’s blessings shall be great upon you. The more you lose her because of God, the more you will gain her. It’s not the form, but patriarchy that sets one apart from the others.

Finally, there is a great need to turn away from the pagan theology of “should-be” monogamy for all people and to return to God’s forms and understanding of marriages as demonstrated by the Biblical fathers. The Bible is to be seen as one Word, not a book with 2 separate portions of 2 different cultures. There can be some cultural and societal differences from time to time, but the truth of God remains the same throughout the ages. He is timeless and He is never outdated, and the fundamental needs of man never change, for he forever remains as man. Children, let your hearts be turned to the fathers, lest God come and strike your land with a curse (Mal 4:6).

Brethren, be blessed in the Lord. Amen

In Christ’s Name,
Israel CS Lim

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 8/8/2011 14:24 pm

Is Polygyny for Today?
sOURCE:http://www.christianpoly.org/today.php

This question is often heard after one is shown that the practice was common among Israel. The key for the study is the change of covenants and an understanding of God’s morals.

Our God has morals. He can not violate his own law. God does not change and his morals do not change. You will not find one single act that is sin in the old covenant that is righteous in the new covenant. Also you will not find one single act that was righteous in the older covenant or covenants that is sinful today. Our God does not change.

We are so used to having laws change these days that it is hard for one to understand that under God’s system nothing changes when it comes to morals. How does this subject relate to morals? The idea of God condemning a person for an act one day and then saying it is a righteous act the next would indicate that God had changed his morals. At that point we would be worshipping a different god, an unreliable god.

The fact is that God legislated and in one circumstance required plural marraige means that God has a moral stance on the practice of polygyny. The practice was not a violation of his moral law. Since God does not change then his moral stance on the subject must still be the same.

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 8/8/2011 12:23 pm

James R. Thanks buddy.. though we may not agree on all thngs…at least you care enough to read my posts…

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 6/22/2011 14:31 pm

TIUCHE: I like post #25. A+++++++++

By James Richter (wrote 536 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 6/21/2011 21:24 pm

DO NOT THROW THE OLD AWAY!

I told a retiring female teacher who had reached the age of 65 about the Parable to the Guitars.She was a Bible believer, was unmarried and lives with her 8o plus year old mother.As i was finishing my story about how Juan told the dealer that he could not destroy his old guitar in order just to have a new one…MAM laughed at me and let me finished my story. She said her Chinese father had always told her as a young girl about giving honor to old possession…whether it be a guitar, a wife, a tool or anything.

She nodded at me as i explained to her how Juan because of sentimental value and the love he have for his old guitar could not destroy it…she previously had explained to me how hard it was to care for her old mother…while at the same time getting old herself w/o any help…helpers donot stay long in a job that pays a very meager salary of about 2000 pesos a month or 50 dollars a month, more or less.

People are fan of throwing the old away…divorces their old mates…treat the old testament like they are obsolete scriptures…despise the old ways and old roads…but mind you…they won’t part with their old carnal nature.

The word of God is clear in 2 Sam. 12:8 that God give wives for man after His own heart…on whose heart are His Laws written….but i wonder why those who profess to believe in Him would not believe His clear Words that adding several wives to an existing one is no sin. Perhaps they think 2 Sam. 12:8 is old thus obsolete…not to be taken seriously!

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 6/21/2011 16:32 pm

A LOOK AT THE MOTHER’S DOCTRINE ON MARRIAGE

Source: www.newadvent.org/cathen/02564a.htm.

Bigamy (Polygamy) “is the crime of having two wives or husband at once…as defined by Jurist is an act injurious to public morality by which the STATE or community is injured and which my therefore properly be made CRIMINAL.”

Remember FORNIX CATHIEN? For those who have eyes to see…

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 6/21/2011 15:43 pm

A LOOK AT NON CHRISTIAN MARRIAGES
Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/polygamy_in_india.

“Polygamy is illegal in India for Hindus and other religious groups under the Hindu Marriage Act. It remains legal for Muslim under the terms of the Muslim Personal Law Application Act of 1937, as interpreted by the All India Muslim Personal Law Board.”

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 6/21/2011 15:33 pm

A LOOK BACK AT HISTORY OF CHRISTIAN MARRIAGE#1

Source 1-www.newworldencyclopedia.ord/entry/Polygamy/#Christianity

= Anti-polygamy=
1. John Calvin condemned Polygamy!
2. ST Augustine wrote in the Good Marriage (chapter 15 paragraph 17)’Polygamy’ was lawful among the ancient fathers, whether it be lawful now also, i would not hastily pronounce…which now is not lawful…” In another place he wrote, “Now indeed in our time, and in keeping with ROMAN CUSTOM, it no longer allowed to take another wife…”
3.The Catholic church clearly condemns polygamy.

=Pro-polygamy=
1. Periodically, Christian reform movement that have aimed at rebuilding Christian doctrine on the Bible alone (sola Scriptura) have at least temporarily accepted POLYGAMY as a Biblical practice.
2. Martin Luther sees Polygamy not a sin against God.
3. Parliament of Nurnberg on February 14, 1560 allowed men to marry up to Ten Women!

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 6/21/2011 13:29 pm

Roland G.

You are indeed simple…i leave you alone now…

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/30/2011 17:32 pm

Monsieur Tiuche, thank you my friend. “There is no pillow so soft as a clear conscience.” French Proverb

By Roland G (wrote 1651 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/30/2011 16:55 pm

Roland G:
I guess you are right…so go on…

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/30/2011 16:48 pm

Monsieur Tiuche, the verse you quote is not about TRUTH. 1 Cor 13;1 is about speaking in tongues and language of angels. When the devil was sentenced he told God to ignore the truth and to love him forever. Focus on the text my friend. Focus on the text. You can dupe some, but not those who know better.

By Roland G (wrote 1651 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/30/2011 16:37 pm

Roland G.:
Truth over love? Jesus said, “I will have mercy not sacrifice” and you say truth over love! Would you kill for the truth? You are blinded by your own conception of truth…though you have all the truth but you do not have LOVE …you are a clanging cymbal (forget about that? That is in 1 Cor. 13)” The enemy indeed is subtle..how be it you are still deceive when the TRUTH is in your heart …and you won’t believe.”_B. Dylan.

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/30/2011 14:34 pm

Monsieur Tiuche, focus on the text my friend; Always TRUTH OVER LOVE.

By Roland G (wrote 1651 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/30/2011 11:48 am

Roland G.
You say Jesus love me, i already know that…we know Jesus loves you and me and everybody, how about you Roland G do you love me as a brother in Christ? Do you even consider me as a brother in Christ? Me i consider you as a brother in Christ, that is why i am telling you that you are wrong with regards to those things we discuss.

Do you think i am here to be cute? Am i here to prove to everybody i am intelligent? Am i here to annoy everybody? No, i am here to deliver a message of importance…a message that all should repent of those sins i mentioned!

Jeremy S advise me not to be annoying, that i should talk about pleasant things and not to dwell on those things that i keep on discussing…but talking about pleasant things won’t solve the problems created by people with wrong thinking. that is why i am here…to teach the right way…to set the captives free…to those who have ears to hear and eyes that can see…

Putting those messages aside as unimportant for the pleasant things…will result to nothing…captives of wrong thinking and prisoners of satan deceptions not freed…the results of sin would continue to afflict people…

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/30/2011 09:52 am

Monsieur Tiuche, Jesus loves you even if you do that which is right in your own eyes.

By Roland G (wrote 1651 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/29/2011 18:15 pm

Roland G:
Do you think that by the way you speak to me you are saying that truth in love or in annoyance? Are you behaving as Christ would want you to behave?

What have i to do with them? Am i not free to tell everybody here the TRUTH?
Are you sure that what I am preaching is polygamy alone or is it that PEOPLE SHOULD OBEY THE LAWS OF GOD AND not the tradition of men?Which is which?

Many times our hearts are darkened by prejudices…drinking too much wine from the Mother …instead of the Heavenly Father….

Think of it this way roland…let us say you are 99% right that i am wrong…i have only 1% of chance that you are wrong and had been deceived by the BIG BIG LIE OF THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS…& her daughters…would you not study what i am claiming?

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/29/2011 17:34 pm

Monsieur Tiuche, I forgot to mention the polygamy dot com website failed to sell at the recent auction price of $5,000. It is no wonder it did not sell since its value is about $651.00.

By Roland G (wrote 1651 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/29/2011 16:04 pm

Monsieur Tiuche, there is a website for sale valued at an estimated $651.00. It would make a great forum for your polygamy agenda. Just google polygamy dot com.. They list 40 people in the Holy Bible who practiced polygamy. They also list the key verses Polygamists misinterpret to promote their agenda.

By Roland G (wrote 1651 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/29/2011 15:59 pm

Roland G.
What happened to man who have many wives? Do you know the Scriptures?

1. Moses have two wives and he was beloved of God.
2. David had more than 18 wives and he was a man after God’s own heart;
3. Abraham had 3 wives and he was a prophet and friend of God;
4. Elkanah had two wives and he had Samuel the prophet as a son;
5. Jacob have 4 wives and he was called Israel by God;
6. Caleb had many wives and he together with Joshua were the only 2 men of their gennration to get into the promised land;and….
7. should i go on….

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/29/2011 13:16 pm

Monsieur Tiuche, Joseph Smith wanted more women than just Emma. So, he told Emma he received a special revelation message (the Benny Hinn approach). Joseph warned Emma she was to “receive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph.” Emma obeyed. Joseph Smith died within one year. Do you see what happens to a man when he tries to deal with more than one woman?

By Roland G (wrote 1651 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/29/2011 12:25 pm

Roland G.

God gave David many wives …David had more than eighteen wives…remember he was reprimanded for taking the wife of another man…now you say that the wives mentioned by God in this verse are nothing but servants to care for him? LOL….David had ten concubines . Concubines are wife/ servants, why have other servants in your household especially of a king who sought after his life? You are misreading the scripture…
Sober up…don’t let the wine of the Woman make a drunk of you…that your perceptions are affected…for this is the clear and concise word of God…it is not a sin for man to have more than one wife!

By TIUCHE (wrote 51 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/16/2011 04:26 am

In 2 Sam. 12:8, God gave King Saul’s possessions to King David. This included Saul’s wives to care for them not to marry them.

By Roland G (wrote 1651 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/15/2011 21:21 pm

Ramon:
Do you mean to say then that God is partial? The one speaking in the above verse is God…He give many wives to David but you say that God monogamy is implied from the very beginning…Does God have a double mind?

David sleep with many women more than twenty and I don’t think that David was weak!Solomon the wisest man had many wives…he was not turned away from God by His MANY WIVES…he was turned away by HIS STRANGE WIVES- wives who did not believe in God….don’t be misled by hairline difference between sin and not sin!

Israel when they lived in Egypt were so fast to increase in population. Do you know why? If you Genesis to Exodus… especially the scriptures where each family is enumerated you will note that they practice polygamy….that is why there population was rapid…the Egyptians were pagans…did not have the Laws of God..but they mostly practiced monogamy; while Israel people mostly were polygamous! During the New Testament times Judah and the early Christians were under Rome- PAX ROMANA-a gentile pagan kingdom…

It is wrong to say that most early Christians practiced monogamy!Do you know what monogamy is? It is a doctrine whereby a man is prohibited to have more than one wife! Now God had Laws on marriage, and He did not say that we should have many wives; He did not say that everyone should marry; He did not say that everyman should have only one wife. Now, what do you call a doctrine that prohibits what God did not prohibit?

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/3/2011 17:25 pm

I indeed think it’s a sign of weakness to sleep with more than one woman.

Genesis 2:24 implies that monogamy was God’s intention from the beginning. When he created man in his own image he later took woman out of man.

When Genesis 2:24 says that when a man is married he becomes one flesh with his wife it implies a return to the state prior to separation. When a man and a woman marry they represent the fullness of God. Monogamy was God’s original intention but it was ignored by many. Solomon was the wisest man who ever lived but the Bible says that he was turned away from God by his many wives. Jesus used this verse in Genesis to teach monogamy and so from the beginning Christianity has been monogamous. Christians were converted from paganism where polygamy was rife. Therefore the qualifications for an elder and a deacon are that they be the husband of one wife as I said before.

By Ramon (wrote 3 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/2/2011 15:50 pm

Ramon:
Do you mean that a man with many wives are weak because they enjoyed having sex with many wives? Would you know that King Saul who had only a wife and one concubine was weak in his faith while King David a man after God’s own heart had been given by God more than twenty wives? God giving him many wives as recorded in the above verse, and now it seems that the above verse is not clear in your mind…are you founded well on the Law and the Prophets (Old testament)…are you interpreting the New Testament Scriptures in a constricted way? Are you really sure you are seeing the above verse through the whole picture of the old and new testament?

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/2/2011 14:55 pm

Ramon:
I have only one wife & 2 children. Does the above verse not refer to Elders in the faith who are given responsibilities in the Church of God? Are you really sure of what you are affirming that it is a sin against God to have many wives?

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/2/2011 14:38 pm

Titus 1:6 teaches us: “An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.” Things have changed since Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law. I think this commentary of Tiuche can deceive the weaker ones among us. How many wives do you have, Tiuchi?

By Ramon (wrote 3 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/2/2011 14:01 pm

God had blessed David and one blessing was giving him MANY WIVES…this would come to be a surprise from those that had been made to believe that having many wives is a sin against God! It should be noted in this chapter that God was angry for Adultery but having many wives is not adultery! God had a law regarding a man that have more than one wife which is found in Exodus 21:10….note that it is after the Ten Commandment chapter -Exodus 20.
It is to be noted too that the in whole Kingdom of David the Laws of God was being keep; however imperfectly, yet it was being observe…no other nation had so wise a law as that sample nation.

Do we not wonder why now it is being taught that having many wives is a sin against God? This again is connected to the BIG BIG LIE that master deceiver had mislead people into believing….a people ignorant of the Holy Scriptures is a people ignorant of God’s Laws…a people ignorant of God’s Law on marriage is a candidate for broken marriages…

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/2/2011 13:26 pm