Exodus 3: 20 Commentary

Tiuche, you misquoted my quote I didn’t quote the part you said I quoted but a different sentence.

So my comprehension is quite good, thank you. But perhaps it’s better if you don’t answer my question because I can see where this could go.

By Charles (wrote 1421 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 11/27/2011 14:58 pm

How is your comprehension Charles? You asked me if I agree with post #4 when it is clear what i said: Robert Louis Post#4 Your comment might be true or it might be wrong. Pending other infos that may surface or truths from the Bible that we have not seen.

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 11/27/2011 13:28 pm

Re post 7: “There is however one thing wrong with your thoughts not with post#4 but in some other post …”

So you agree with post 4?

By Charles (wrote 1421 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 11/26/2011 22:56 pm

Robert Louis Post#4 Your comment might be true or it might be wrong. Pending other infos that may surface or truths from the Bible that we have not seen.There is however one thing wrong with your thoughts not with post#4 but in some other post where you have accused Yahweh (the son of El Elyon if that is right)as genocidal and a cruel god. You donot see the Big picture of things as THEY the Gods see! A good reminder to you is Psalm 2:1-7 and take note of verses 10-12 especially verse 12:

” 1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision…

6Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee…

10Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

If the Son is Yahweh- Yeshua-Yasho- or Jesus Christ then Kiss Him, give Him the Reverence you gave to His Father! For You cannot come to His Father without Him !

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Don’t accuse the LORD of being hard we are instructed to humble ourselves:

Matthew 25:24 “Then the man who had received the one talent …
‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where thou hast not sown, and…

Romans 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

By TIUCHE (wrote 3262 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 11/22/2011 15:21 pm

Thanks, Robert. As usual your posts are informative and eye-opening. Your examples in posts 4 and 5 show very clearly that Israel believed Yahweh to be quite powerful but not all-powerful. He had limits.

Jews believed that Ēl ʿElyōn was the super God and father of minor gods below him. Of course I do not believe that. I believe in one omnipotent God only; no minor gods. For that reason I prefer not to refer to the one and only God as Ēl ʿElyōn or by any other name. By giving him a name, I would be distinguishing him from others. And since there are no others I prefer to refer to God simply as God.

The Jews eventually changed their thinking. When it became obvious that their local god (Yahweh) was no match to Babylon, they merged him with the super God. This had the positive effect of giving rise to monotheism. Monotheism received the blessing of Jesus, who acknowledged a one-and-only Father God. Jesus did not acknowledge Yahweh or any other minor god.

But it was two steps forward and one backward because, after the generation of the Christ had passed, the new Christian church went back to multiple gods with Jesus and the Holy Ghost.

By Charles (wrote 1421 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 11/22/2011 02:45 am

Ref #1

Take a look Judges 1:19, it says:

“And Yahweh was with Judah; and he drove out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.”

If the Canaanite’s advantage in chariots of iron proved to be a strong deterrent to the Israelites’ desire to occupy all of Canaan, particularly the broad valley area (cf. Josh. 17:16; Judg. 4:3), then it would appear that Yahweh is not omnipotent. He gave success in the mountains but NOT enough on iron chariots.

In love and light.

By Robert Louis (wrote 52 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 11/21/2011 06:51 am

Hi Charles

Took this cutting below from a website which shows that there are some who are not fooled by the boasts of Yahweh the god of war.

Yahweh, son of El Elyon

Take a look at Deuteronomy 32:8-9 (King James Version):

“When the Most High divided their inheritance to the nations,
When He separated the sons of Adam,
He set the boundaries of the peoples
According to the number of the children of Israel.
For the LORD’s portion is His people;
Jacob is the place of His inheritance.”
This is based on the traditional Hebrew text, otherwise known as the Masoretic text (MT). Now look at a much older version of this text that was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls and matches the Greek Septuagint text:

“When El Elyon gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he separated the sons of men,
he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.
For Yahweh’s portion is his people,
Jacob his allotted inheritance.”
What on earth is going on here? The older text clearly shows that El Elyon is the father of all the gods, and Yahweh is simply one of his sons. El Elyon divides up the various nations and allocates a portion to Yahweh. The later version of the text simply merged these two gods into a single being.

There are other clues that there were originally multiple gods, take Psalm 82 for example, where Yahweh stands in the council of the gods.

1. Psalm of Asaph. God stands in the council of the gods; he judges among the gods.
2. How long will you judge unjustly, and show preference to the wicked? Selah.
3. Judge the poor and the orphans; do righteousness to the afflicted and dispossessed.
4. Deliver the poor and oppressed; save them from the hand of the evil.
5. They do not know and they have no understanding; they walk about in darkness. All the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6. I said, “You are gods, and children of Elyon, every one of you.”
7. But you will die like mortals, and fall like one of the princes.
8. Rise up, O God, and judge the earth, for you have inherited all the nations.

There are many other references to “other gods” in the Old Testament if you look carefully, have a look at my Bible Nonsense page for some examples. A lot of the rants by Yahweh in the Old Testament appear to be about his superiority over these other gods, presumably the ones El Elyon allocated to other lands.

In love and light

By Robert Louis (wrote 52 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 11/21/2011 05:57 am

Think about it!

By Charles (wrote 1421 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 11/21/2011 04:04 am

Poster #1 is evidently much wiser than Jehovah; the Ancient of Days. How is it that we have overlooked this wonderful one until now?

By Scott Dale (wrote 581 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 11/21/2011 02:44 am

Yahweh was powerful, but not ALL-powerful. If he was all-powerful he would have softened Pharaoh’s heart, rather than hardened it, and he would have brought his people out of bondage without all the misery and massacres that followed.

By Charles (wrote 1421 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 11/21/2011 01:18 am