Ref. post 149, here’s the difference between science and religion. In sience we start by making observations and testing all hypotheses in a continuing attempt to arrive at the truth. In religion it’s the opposite: we start with a declaration that we already know the truth and work backward trying to prove our beliefs to be correct. I believe the science way is the honest way.

Commentary by Charles Fiott
Posted on: 6/15/2010 01:00 am

For science also it is like this. Earlier it was maintained that the atom is indivisible, but we now have the atomic energy by dividing the atom.There are many things for which our understanding has changed a lot. Earlier dear Charles has agreed that there could be many possibilities to look at the creation of the universe. We keep learning. How much more it is difficult to know God and his mirculous workings?

Commentary by Jayant Christian
Posted on: 6/14/2010 23:20 pm

Ref. post 147 and others.

For most of our existence most people were convinced that Earth was flat and those who argued otherwise were not treated kindly. Eventually most people accepted the fact that Earth wasn’t flat but still refused to believe that it was a mere planet that revolved around the sun. Those who argued otherwise were scorned, excommunicated, and burned at the stake. Today most people have finally had to accept the truth about the Earth’s rotation, but they still cling to the failed accounts of its creation. The creation controversy is no different from the previous two. Again the majority of people are much more comfortable hanging on to hand-me-down beliefs than accepting any evidence to the contrary.

I have read different versions of the first chapter of Genesis and always concluded that the sky stands above us like a dome, the stars are but tiny little lightbulbs, and the sun and moon were put there after Earth took its current, flat shape. That’s what the Holy Book clearly assumes. The defenders of Genesis keep doing their utmost to make it “right” but every time I read it I get totally convinced that its writers would have flunked a basic test in astronomy or geography. Why should I believe a book that got it all so wrong?

Commentary by Charles Fiott
Posted on: 6/10/2010 15:13 pm

Reference post No. 11,13, 20 and some other posts made thereafter.

Charless fiott has raised some crucial points with regard to the Biblical account of creation as given in Genesis Chapter one; such as, how can there be evening and morning on the very first day without the Sun being already in place and the earth revolving on its axis and around the sun, as the sun, the moon and the stars were made on the forth day? How can the earth precede the sun? Based on the scientific knowledge, he has concluded that the Bible is not true. I was greatly disturbed at that, but I didn’t doubt what the Bible has to say. I believed that something must be wrong in our understanding of the text and kept on thinking on the matter. I just woke up at 3 AM on 10/06/10 and was found thinking on it. As I got some clues, I immediately wrote down and am now posting my comments, after being silent over the matter for a long time.

The Biblical account of creation doesn’t say when the water was made. It doesn’t say that the light was created on the first day. In fact, God is the Father of all lights and is himself light. (James 1:17), but that the light was commanded to shine in the darkness that covered the waters, suggesting that the light was already there.

Again the account says that the earth was formless (without order) and void (empty). It doesn’t however say that the heavens were so-formless or void. They were filled with all the celestial bodies like the galaxies, the starts, the sun, the moon and also angelic beings as well. The angels were there singing praises to God, when God laid the foundation of the earth (Job38:4-7). But in the account of Genesis, we do not find praises of the angels. Only God praises His own works of creation: It was good or very good. The man was now to praise His creator. Thus, this account doesn’t focus on laying the foundation of the earth- its initial creation.

When we come to the fourth day, we have the description of the Sun and the moon as bigger and lesser lights and the stars. The fourth day also starts with God commanding the lights (plural) to separate the day and the night. After that we have mention of making of the sun, the moon and the stars. Verse 16 reads as, “God made the lights”. But in Hebrew, a verb implies that an action is either completed or incomplete and the verb can be translated either as the past tense or as the past perfect tense in English. As her also the lights were commanded, it shows that they were already in place there. Verse 16 should thus read as “God had made tow lights,” suggesting that the sun, the moon and the stars were created earlier with the creation of heavens and the earth in the beginning, and not made on the fourth day! Even the water must have been created at that time.

God is the God of order. He would not create something that is formless (without order) and void (empty), but it would be beautiful. The condition of the earth as being formless and void is therefore the result of the judgment of God upon the earth in the pre-Adamite period. This may suggest the revolt of Lucifer the Satan. The Genesis account this speaks of the restoration of the earth making it habitable for Adam and eve- for humankind.

Thus, the order of the events seems to be: the creation of the heavens with all its celestial bodies and the earth in the absolute beginning; Destruction of the earth, making it desolate and without form and covered with the dense darkness; God restoring the earth and its environment for man to live in. This is done is seven days, by the command of God, except that Adam and Eve were made on the sixth day. As the Sun, the moon and the stars were already there, God had just to command the light/ lights to shine in the darkness. Thus the occurring of evening and morning could take place from the very first day.

Commentary by Jayant Christian
Posted on: 6/9/2010 23:34 pm

Roland G certainly has the right to his opinions, but he has no right to change the Bible.

1. Genesis does not indicate in any way that “all three members of the Godhead Three played a role in creation”. There is no reference at all to “the other two”. This continues to be the case after the creation. Noah, Abraham and everybody else only prayed to, talked to, and feared one God.

2. Roland G’s definition of heaven is again contrary to the Bible. Genesis does not indicate in any way that the world is round and therefore heaven does not “surround” Earth, as he claims. Heaven in the Bible is always somewhere “up there”, as in the Babel story.

3. I agree with Roland G that “the earth took billions of years to shap and form” . . . well, I almost agree. In reality Earth’s shape and form are still changing. But this is not what Genesis says. Genesis says it was there (or created) in the beginning and then it took just a day or two for all the “shaping and forming”.

Why do people keep trying to alter the words of the Bible?

Commentary by Charles Fiott
Posted on: 5/10/2010 00:47 am

“In the beginning”
This “beginning” differs from the “beginning” referred to in John 1:1 (God existed before the creation of angelic beings and, a fortiori, mankind). This “beginning” refers to that moment in time when God created all heavenly and earthly elements putting them into motion.

“God”
“Elohim,” in the original Hebrew tongue is plural to indicate that all three members of the Godhead Three(i.e. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit) played a role in creation).

“created”
All of the elements which comprise the heaven and the earth were created.

“the heaven”
This “heaven” refers to an area of space of unknown perimerter surrounding the earth called the first heaven. The “heaven” where God and angelic creatures reside is referred to as the third heaven (2 Cor. 12:2)

“and the earth.”
The earth took billions of years to shap and form. It did not instantly appear in a final shape or form as evidenced from Gen 1:2.

Commentary by Roland G.
Posted on: 5/9/2010 23:56 pm

Verse 1: This is the ground work for a relationship with the creator and his creation. I think that God, through Moses, is demonstrating His magnificence. Here is a being that spoke heaven and earth into being. God knew that man would fail, but He wanted man first, to know who He was, to let man know that he could have everything he could ever want if he depended on God. There is no question that God wanted fellowship with His entire creation.

Commentary by Bernard "Ben" Denis
Posted on: 5/8/2010 18:51 pm

In the begining,God created the heavens earlier,he thought of creating the earth when He saw the need for man,and decided to make all that man would need before making him as you will find out.Have you ever asked yourself where God was when creating the heaven & earth?

Commentary by Douglas 'kanye
Posted on: 5/7/2010 19:19 pm

Thank you Constant for your study and sharing with us all.

Every langauage has its own peculiarity. In Sanskrit Grammar,there are three persons, three numbers (Singular, plural and for two),three genders, eight cases and three tenses and in all cases there are different forms! Hebrew has its own peculiarities as well. You have said that the word Elohim denotes three, if we consider the Numbers in its grammar. Could you please explain this in detail or suggest some supportive material to look into?

Commentary by Jayant Christian
Posted on: 5/6/2010 22:40 pm

A basic Study of the Book of Genesis

CHAPTER 1
“Ray-sheeth Bara Elohim Eth Ha-Shamayim we’th Ha’arets”. Gen.1:1 (In Hebrew)
Elohiym’s (God’s) wonderful creation
1. In the beginning (re’shiyth “ray-sheeth” Strong’s # 7225) God (Elohiym “El-o-heem” אֱלוֹהִים , אלהים, Strong’s # 430)
Elohiym (“El-o-heem” אֱלוֹהִים , אלהים,)
The divine name “Elohiym” is used in the Bible 2500 times; 35 times regarding the creation (Page No.46,47 The name above all names by Donstanton). Elohiym is the divine name of the Triunion God Almighty. In the original language Hebrew, the word Elohiym is an uni-plural form. In Hebrew language the plural form is three or more numbers. It means Elohiym is in plural as well as singular can appear in single person or three persons. Elohiym is the Trinity noun form of the Biblical definition which now we are believing and worshiping. Lord Almighty Elohiym is the Trinitarian God. All the ‘im’ ending noun forms are as uni-plural meaning in the original language. Such as the Lord Elohiym can appear as a single person and also in three different personalities. As now we are worshiping Lord the Father Yahweh, The Son Jesus Christ, and The Holy Spirit.
(240 times as plural name of “gods”, and twice to Ashtoreth – the goddess of the Zidonians. 1 Kig. 11:5, 33.)
created (Bara “Baw-raw” Strong’s # 1254) Gen. 1:1; 21,27,27,27, 2:3,4, 5:1,2,2, 6:7; Dut.4:32; Ps 89:12, 102:18, 25, 90: 2; 104:30, 148:5,Eccl.11:5; Isa.40:26, 41:20, 42:5, 43:1,7; 44:24; 45:12,18,18, 48:7,54:16,16; Jer.10:16; 31:22; Eze.21:30, 28:13,15; Mal.2:10; Jh. 1:3; Col. 1:16; Heb. 1:2)
Note:- It is very interesting that, if we study the word by word of this first verse as an original Language. For Creation act there are six Hebrew words are used in first Chapter Gen. also according the creation account referred in the Bible. They are Bara, Asab, Nathan, Yatser, Banah, Qanah (Bible for Spirit Filled Living Page 7).
Bara:-
The word “Bara” (“bah-rah” Strong’s # 1254) means in English created but in the Biblical Language it means only Lord Elohiym can accomplish this act; creation from nothing. It is exclusively used with God (Elohiym) as its subject, indicating that only God (Elohiym) can accomplish this activity. The word is used most often for creation of Universe (Gen. 1:1; 21,27,27,27, 2:3,4, 5:1,2,2, 6:7; Dut.4:32; Ps 89:12, 102:18, 104:30, 148:5, ; Isa.40:26, 41:20, 42:5, 43:1,7; 45:12,18,18, 48:7,54:16,16; Jer.31:22; Eze.21:30, 28:13,15; Mal.2:10, ) (BSB).
Asaw:-
The word Asab means “To make” or “To do” (asah “aw-saw” Strong’s # 6213)it is used of God’s creation Gen. 1: 7,16 25, 26; 2:2.
Nathan:-
The word Nathan means “To set” (Nathan “naw-than” Strong’s # 5414) Gen. 1:17
Yatsar:-
The word Yastar means “Form or Fashion” (yatsar “yaw-tsar” Strong’s # 3335) Gen. 2:7, Creation of Adam
Banah:-
The word Banah means “To make or Build” (banah “baw-naw” Strong’s # 1129) Gen. 2:22.
Qanah:-
The word Quanah means “posses or acquire” (Qanah “kaw-naw” Strong’s # 7069) Gen. 14:19.
the heaven (shamayim “shaw-mah-yim” Strong’s # 8064) and the earth (erets “eh-rets” Strong’s # 776). Ref.Job 38:4-5, Ps. 8:3, 33:6,9, 89:11,12; 90:2,102:25, 104:5,6,24; 136:5, Isa. 40:21,22; 42:5,44:24, 45:18, 66:1,2, John1:1-3, Acts 14:15, 17:24, Rom.1:20;Col. 1:16,17; Heb.1:2,10, 11:3; Rev. 4:11.
Hashamayim (Shamayim):-
The word Shamayim translated in the Bible as Heaven; but Shamayim also an uni-plural form meaning of three heavens. The only one word is in Hebrew language as representing about the Heaven, Constellation and the Atmospheric space of the earth. The Bible is also telling the three heavens 2nd Cori. 12:2, Deut.10:14, Eph.4:10, 1King. 8:27, Neh.9:6, Ps.115:16. (shamayim “shaw-mah-yim” Strong’s # 8064)
A. Shamayim (Heaven):- Is Kingdom of God dwelling. Lord Elohiym and all the Heavenly beings. Deut.10:14, Eph.4:10, 1King. 8:27, Neh.9:6, Ps.115:16.
Third heaven – home of the heavenly beings.
B. Shamayim (Constellation):- Stars and all the Solar system. (Groups of stars form patterns in the night sky, which are called Constellations. There are 88 known Constellations Whitaker’s World of Facts page21,22)
Second heaven – home of the sun, moon, and stars.
C. Shamayim (Atmospheric space):- It is the Atmosphere of the Earth as surrounding in the surface of the earth as six layers. It was created by Lord Elohiym at the time of creation is recorded by Him in Gen. 1:1, Job. 9:8, Ps. 104:2, Isa: 40:22 “It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in”. Isa.42:5, 44:24, Jer. 10:12 etc.
First heaven – home of the birds and clouds Dan. 4:12.
Earth (erets “eh-rets” Strong’s # 776): -
This is my personal work of Gen. Study, only started. by AE Constant

Commentary by AE Constant
Posted on: 5/6/2010 04:08 am