Genesis 1: 1 Commentary

Terik Q,I thank you for your nice comments in post#58.
You have mentioned about oral tradition.
“Adam told his kids and they told their kids and so on.”
Here are some interesting facts from Genesis 5 in which we found genealogies.
1)When Adam was 130 years old,Seth was born. Gen.5:3 -Adam’s age 130yrs.
2)When Seth was 105 years old,Enos was born. Gen.5:6 -” ” ” ” ” 235 yrs
3)When Enos was 90 years old,Cainan was born. Gen.5:9 -” ” ” ” ” 325yrs.
4)When Cainan was 75 years old,Mahalaleel was born.Gen.5:12 -” ” ” ” 400yrs.
5)When Mahalaleel was 65 years old,Jared was born.Gen.5:15 -” ” ” ” 465yrs.
6)When Jared was 162 years old,Enoch was born.Gen.Gen.5:18 -” ” ” ” 627yrs.
7)When Enoch was 65 years old,Methuselah was born.Gen.5:21 -” ” ” ” 692yrs.
8)When Methuselah was 187 years old,Lamech was born.Gen.5:25-” ” ” ” 879yrs.
9)When Lamech was 182 years old,Noah was born Gen.5:28
Adam was 879 years old,when the 9th from Adam-i.e. Lamech was born.Adam died at the age of 930 years.
Hence when Lamech was 51 years old(930-879=51),Adam died.
Adam died only 131 years before Noah was born.

By Alex (wrote 499 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 4/30/2009 14:36 pm

Please refer commentary in post #56.
Charles,you’ve mentioned about “Codex Sinaiticus” in your commentary in post#51. Before proceeding further I think it will be useful to furnish some latest details about it.
CODEX SINAITICUS
“Codex Sinaiticus ” is a manuscript written in the middle of the 4th century. “Codex” means “book”. “Codex Sinaiticus” means “the Sinai Book”.It is named after the Monastery of Catherine,Mt.Sinai where it was preserved for many centuries.
Leaves & fragments of this manuscript were taken by Constantine Tischendorf, a German Biblical Scholar,in 1844,in 1853 & in 1859 so that they might be published.The principal surviving portion of the Codex comprising 347 leaves was purchased from the Soviet Govt. in 1933 and is now held by the British Library.They were previously known as “Codex Sinaiticus Petropolitanus” as they were kept in St.Petersburg between 1865 & 1933.A further 43 leaves are held at the University Library in Leipzig.
They were published in 1846 as “Codex Augustanus” in honour of Fredrick Augustus II,King of Saxony who was the patron of Constantine Tischendrof.
Parts of 6 leaves are held at the national Library of Russia in St.Petersburg.12 leaves of 40 fragments remain in St.Catherine Monastery recovered by the monks from the northern of Monastery in June 1975.
The hand written text is Greek.The N.T. appears in the vernacular language (koine)and the O.T. in the version known as the Septuagint.
The pages of Codex Sinaiticus are of prepared of animal skin called parchment.Each leaf measures 380 mm high & 345 mm wide.Just over 400 leaves survived.On these parchment leaves is written half of the O.T.& Apocrypha
(the Septuagint),the whole Book of the N.T and two early Christian Texts not found in the Bible (An epistle by an unknown writer claiming to be the Apostle Barnabas & The Shepherd written by the Roman writer Hermas).Most of the first part of the manuscript (containing most of the so-called historical books from Genesis to 1 Chronicles ) is now missing & presumed to be lost.
The Septuagint includes books which many Christian documents place in the Apocrypha.Those present in the surviving part of the Septuagint in Codex Sinaiticus are 2 Esdras,Tobit,Judith,1&4 Maccabees,Wisdom & Sirach.

By Alex (wrote 499 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 4/30/2009 05:26 am

Charles, you’re half right. True, mistakes could have occurred, but that does not mean they did on the level some people suggest. True, the Bible copying & translation was a human endevour, but the original writtings were a joint human and divine authorship.
Regarding the original, there are (at least) the issues of Revelation and Inspiration. Assuming Moses as author of Genesis & Exodus, how did he know about the events (Revelation)? Divine Revelation - Moses had a dream/vision while on Mt. Sinai. Oral Tradition - Adam told his kids who told their kids and so on. Testimony - Other witnesses such as Mose’s sister & mother could have told him about his birth. Eyewitness - Moses himself experienced the actual Exodus. (I also think that everyone has a generic version of the Resurrection story written on the heart — thus explaning similar myths in different cultures as well as the popularity of Star Wars, Harry Potter, and the like.)
When Moses did the actual writing of things he knew, Inspiration took over. Christians disagee about how the Inspiration happened. Was Moses a puppet? I believe that he was filled with the Holy Spirit during the task, but he was not a robot. I also believe that Inspiration ensured the revelation was correct if were Oral or another non-Divine form. Other authors, such Billy Graham, are also inspired but not as Biblical authors were. There is a difference b/w inspiration vs Divine Inspiration.
Next is the issue of copying. Scholars probably could tell you how many differences there are when copys are compared against each other. The issues to consider: Text may have been changed, added, or removed. If so, which one is correct? Also, were changes small (typo) or great (resulting in another theology)? I work in publication, so I know a little of what scribe might have had to deal with. A copy is made and checked, re-checked, checked by someone else, checked by a different person, and re-checked again.
It might help to use a secular example: Different historians wrote about Pres. George Washington. Suppose one didn’t realize the cherry-tree story was just a myth and wrote it into his book. Would that discount the rest of his history? Certainly, one would be wise to verify his account against other authors. By checking all history books, people can know reality vs myth. We can know for certain that Washington was an actual man who became President. With the Bible, we know the copying was very exact. It was treated with the utmost care, respect, and accuracy. By comparing copies, we know the main story and we know where there are a few differences. Any good study Bible has footnotes alerting the reader about questionable verses. We can know the Gospel: Christ and Him crucified.

By Terik Q (wrote 65 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 4/29/2009 18:51 pm

Dear Teriq Q

Your comments in Post 52 are very valid. It is reasonable to assume, as you did, that scribes took great pains to make sure that they were transcribing or copying everything correctly. But your assumptions of what the scribes would have or could have done clearly also imply that these scribes acted in a human capacity. And this means that mistakes could have occurred, as, indeed, they did. And this again enforces my conclusion that the Bible is a human endevour, not a divine one.

Charles

By Charles Fiott (wrote 1421 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 4/29/2009 12:55 pm

Ref:Commentary in post #55.
It is learnt that 5300 Greek manuscripts(oldest manuscripts written on papyrus & the later manuscripts written on parchment),10000 Latin Vulgate manuscripts & 9300 manuscripts in Ethiopic,Coptic,Slavic,Syriac & Armenian are available containing fragments of or entire N.T.The total number of manuscripts approaches the figure of 25000.(The N.T. was written about 50 A.D.to 95 A.D.)
The following are some of the earliest manuscripts.
1)Magadelene manuscript containing fragment from Matthew .(Chapter 26).It was discovered recently.It is said that it was written before 68 A.D.This is considered to be the oldest manuscript discovered.
2)John Rylands fragment(p52)containing John 18:31-33,37 dates about 125 A.D.It has been found in Egypt.It is kept in the John Rylands Library,
Manchester.
3)Chester Beaty Papyri(p46)containing a portion of the N.T.dates about 200 A.D.It is kept in Chester Beaty Museum,Dublin& Ann Arbor,Michigan University of Michigan Library.
4)Bodmer Papyri(p66) contains(104 leaves)a portion of the Gospel of John.It dates about 200 A.D.It is kept in cologno,Geneva.
5)Codex Sinaiticus which is dated to the middle of the 4th century contains half of the O.T & the entire N.T.written on parchment leaves.It is called “aleph”(the Hebrew first letter).The portions of Mark 16:9-20 & John 7:53-8:11 are missing.
6)Codex Vaticanus is known as “B”.it is kept in the Vatican Library.It dates to the middle of 4th century or even before that time.It contains almost the whole Greek Bible.(Most part of the Genesis is missing.In the N.T.the portions of Heb.9;14 to the end,the Pastoral Epistles,Philemon and the Book of revelation have been lost.).It does not contain Mark 16:9-20.
7)Codex Alexandrinus is a 5th century manuscript of the Greek Bible containing majority of the Septuagint and the N.T.It is designated as “A”.It is believed that it is written in Alexandria.It is kept in the British museum.(The leaves containing Matthew 1:1-25:5;John 6:50-8:52;2 cor.4:13-12:6 are lost.)
(To be continued)

By Alex (wrote 499 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 4/29/2009 05:36 am

Refer commentary by Charles in post #51.
1)The Old Testament was written in Hebrew & Aramaic languages.The portions of Ezra 4:8-6:18;7:12-26;Jer 10:11;Dan.2:4-7:28 were written in Aramaic.The remaining portions were written in the Hebrew language.The letters of the Hebrew & Aramaic were similar.
2)The Septuagint:”Septuaginta” is the Latin word for seventy.The oldest complete translation of the O.T. has been called the Septuagint.It was commonly designated as LXX.LXX is the Roman numeral for 70.It was believed that 70 to 72 translators were commissioned to translate the O.T.in Greek.
According to tradition,the Septuagint traces back to the time of Ptolemy Philadelphus of Egypt.(285-246 B.C)
The quotations from the O.T. in the N.t.are usually citations from the LXX either verbatim or with minor verbal changes.In other cases,the N.T.
writers translated themselves from the original Hebrew.The early Church has used the LXX.
The Dead Sea Scrolls have also provided earliest manuscripts of parts of the O.T. in Greek.There is close similarity with the LXX.
3)All the Books of the N.T. were written in Greek.
4)As Christian Church spread to other parts where Greek was not spoken,
efforts were taken to translate into Latin,Syriac & Egyptian languages.
5)The Original Texts of the N.T.are not available.Almost all copies made during the first three centuries have disappeared.
Reasons:
i)Papyrus was commonly used for letters.(2 John 12)It soon wore out.
ii)In the time of Diocletian(A.D.303),the persecutors of Christians sought for copies of the Scriptures to be destroyed.
6)Thousands of Greek manuscripts of N.T.Texts are still in existence.
Further,thousands of manuscripts of translations into Latin,Syriac,Egyptian
& other languages are also available.
7)The N.T. quotations in the writings of the early church fathers are also available.
(To be continued)

By Alex (wrote 499 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 4/27/2009 16:35 pm

1)Why would God allow His Word to disappear?This was one of the questions asked by Charles.(Post #47).Let us find the reasons for the disappearance of the original texts of the Bible and how God preserved His Word even then.
2)Materials used for ancient writings:
i)Stone:The Ten commandments were written on stone.Ex.24:12;31:18;32:15-19.
ii)Clay Tablets:(Jer.17:13;Ezek.4:1)Even though clay tablets had great durability and were the cheapest writing materials ,there were limitations in use due to transportation problems and less space for writing.
Thousands of clay tablets which contained details of events ,names & cities of the Bible had been found.One clay tablet dated to 539 B.C.had the records of the events connected with the Persian victory over Babylon.
iii)Papyrus:The English word paper comes from the Greek word “papyrus”.
Papyrus was the most commonly used material for ancient writing.Papyrus could be transported easily & was much easier to use than stone & clay.The papyrus reed was available only in Egypt & Syria.Large quantity of papyrus was transported in ships through the port “Bablos” in Syria.The Greek word for books “biblos”is found in the name of this port.
John Rylands is the oldest N.T.manuscript dated to 125 A.D.It contains a portion of John 18.
iv)Leather:Leather was made from the skins of sheep,goat,antelope or cowhides.It had greater durability than papyrus but more expensive.it was susceptible to cracks & crumbles.
The Isaiah scroll of the dead Sea Scrolls is made of leather.
v)Parchment:The city of Pergamos in Asia Minor(Rev.2:12) was famous for the production of parchment.The word parchment is derived from the name of this city.
Parchment was also made of animal hides.They were soaked in lime water to make them white.
vi)vellum:The calf skin was called vellum.It was dryed purple.
vii)Metal:One copper Scroll containing details of a lot of temple treasures & their locations was among the find of the dead Sea Scrolls.
viii)Ostrica:The technical name is potsherd.(Job 2:8).This was unglazed pottery with the common people.
3)The following are the reasons for the disappearance of the Original Texts of the Bible.
i)Due to passing of time,the writing materials decayed naturally because of their characteristic of limited durability.
ii)Due to frequent handling & use of materials ,they became damaged and unreadable.
iii)The weather conditions or environmental conditions of the places where the manuscripts were kept caused the materials to be destroyed.
The reason for the existence of many papyrus documents is because of their survival due to dry environmental conditions in areas like Sinai desert and Dead Sea area.They were not exposed to moisture due to low humidity.
The Dead Sea Scrolls are mostly made of animal skins but also of papyrus and one of copper.
iv)It is learnt that Hebrews destroyed old manuscripts once copies had been made out of them.
4)Not only Bible manuscripts but also other writings belonging to the corresponding period had been destroyed and they did not exist.
5)Dead Sea Scrolls:The Dead Sea Scrolls consist of roughly 1000 documents including Texts from the Hebrew Bible discovered between 1947 & 1979 in 11 caves in and around the Wadi Qumran (near the ruins of the ancient settlement of the Khirbit Qumran,in the northwest shore of the Dead Sea)in the West Bank.The texts are of great religious & historical significance as they include practically the only known surviving copies of Biblical documents made before 100 A.D.
6)Prior to the discovery of the dead Sea Scrolls,the oldest copies of the manuscripts available were the Masoretic Text.Masoretes were the Jewish scribes who were meticulous in copying.As Terik Q has commented in post # 52,utmost care had been taken in copying.They knew the Hebrew language very well and were able to read the Text which had no vowels or punctuations.It is learnt that they added vowels during the period from 500 A.D.to 1000 A.D.The Dead Sea scrolls are dated to 250 to 150 B.C.There is a time gap of nearly 1000 years between the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Masoretic Texts.When both Texts were compared ,there were no significant differences.This means that copying has been done precisely for 1000 years,
7)It gives us the confidence that the Texts were preserved through the earlier periods also with equal care.
That’s all for now.I’ll continue later.

By Alex (wrote 499 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 4/27/2009 00:36 am

1)Greetings to you,Charles.I’m happy to contact you once again in this way.
You’ve said that you are fascinated by the Bible.I’m happy about that.
Sir.Isaac Newton,William Shershel,Michael Faraday,Joseph Lister,
Lord Kelvin,Henry Pager,Louis Pasture& James Simpson were some of the scientists who had read the Bible with interest.
George Washington,Abraham Lincoln,Queen Victoria,Ronald Reagen & Gandhi were some of the political leaders who were fascinated by the Bible and the teachings of Christ.
John Bunyan,Chaucer,Robert Browning,Charles Dickens,Longfellow,Milton,
Macaulay,Ruskin,Shakespeare,Shelly,Spencer & Tennyson created literature based on the Bible.
2)Bible comes from the Greek word “biblia” which means “books”.The evangelicals believe that the Bible is the Word of God.2 Tim.3:16;2 Peter 1:21.The Bible is the only book which claims supernatural origin.Every word in the original text is inspired by God.It is true that the original text is not available now.However,it is believed that the copies of the original text have high degree of accuracy.Minor variations in the copies available in Hebrew & Greek languages did not alter or affect the doctrines of the Bible.
3)Here are some famous Quotes about the Bible.
“It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.” - George Washington.
“I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given to man.”
- Abraham Lincoln.
“There are more sure marks of authenticity in the Bible than in any profane history.”-Sir.Isaac Newton
“I have fundamental belief in the Bible as the Word of God written by men who were inspired.I study the Bible daily.” -Sir.Isaac Newton.
4)Charles,you’ve remarked “FAITH may be a powerful gift.”Yes,it is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.1 Cor.12:8.
There is a passage which tells what faith is .”Now faith is the assurance (the confirmation,title deed)of things (we)hope for,being the proof of things(we) do not see and the conviction of their reality[faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to senses].Heb.1:1(Amp).
We find another statement about faith in Heb.11:6.”But without faith it is impossible to please him;for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
5)Charles,you are neither an atheist nor an evolutionist but an analyst.I’m glad to know that you had visited Mt.Sinai.You are searching for the Truth.
You’ve also made me to make a little study about the “Authenticity of the Bible” and relevant subjects.Thank you.It is interesting.
Charles,you’ve mentioned about the book “Misquoting Jesus”.I’ve gone through some critical reviews of that book.It is stated that no major doctrinal statements were changed after New Testament canon was accepted in the early second century.
Daniel Bowman has concluded in his article that the Bible,despite textual variations,has been preserved over the centuries with a remarkable trustworthy.
6)The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947,shows the evidence that the Bible has been copied accurately.The Dead Sea Scrolls are dated from 250 to 150 B.C.The discovery pushed back the available oldest Scripture almost 1000 years.When the content of the Dead Sea Scrolls was compared to later copies,no significant differences were found.
7)The Scripture has authority because God has all authority.As God is the author of all Scripture(2 Tim.3:16),Scripture is authoritative.God is the basis for the authority of the Bible.
“All Scripture is given by inspiration of God,…” 2 Tim.3:16.
That’s all for now.I’ll continue in a while.
Before winding up, let me thank Terik Q for his nice comments in post #52.

By Alex (wrote 499 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 4/25/2009 11:28 am

Reply to Charles Fiott:
I’m no expert either, but I would like to offer my response.
Awhile ago I read (sometimes skimmed) Ehrman’s book “Misquoting Jesus”. It seemed to me at one point he was comparing the transmitting of Scripture to the telephone game. When Paul was dictating to his secretary, the scribe could have heard wrong and therefore wrote down incorrect words. I take exception to that: If a scribe was unsure, he would have asked before writting something down. Also, he would have read it back to Paul to ensure he wrote it correctly.
When the OT was copied, a scribe counted the letters. He counted what he was copying, and then he counted his copy. If it didn’t match, it was not acceptable.
It is true that Hebrew does not use written vowels. So how can one be sure of what the actual word is? Context! We have a similar problem in English even with vowels. Consider the word “live”. Do I mean “I want to live to be 100″? Or do I mean “the music concert will be broadcast live”? Try to guess what I mean in this sentence without vowels: “Jm gv bn t hs dg.” Dg could be dag, deg, dig, dog, dug, or variations such as doug. In the above context, it is dog.
I realize that there are a few questionable verses. The woman caught in adultery but saved by Jesus may not have happened. And the end of Mark was probably an addition. Interesting that these examples are in the NT. I don’t have all the answers. But the context of words and the detailed copying of scripes are important considerations.

By Terik Q (wrote 65 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 4/24/2009 16:01 pm

Alex, I am by no means an expert, but I have been looking into the authenticity and the accuracy of the Bible with an open mind. There is much info which you can get online or in print. Let me suggest two sources which I believe are quite balanced. One is an article called “Is Today’s Bible the Real Bible?” by Daniel Bowman which you can read at http://www.irr.org/bible-reliable.html. The other is a book by Bart D. Ehrman called “Misquoting Jesus”. Both note discrepancies in the Bible, some or many of which were intentional. Bowman concludes that the changes are not huge enough to infringe on the authenticity of the Bible. Ehrman’s conclusion is basically the opposite. Both are interesting reads.

Here are some of the salient points that emerge from these and other sources:
1. The Old Testament was written between 1400 and 400BC, yet the oldest copies go back only to 250BC. That’s well over a thousand years between original and copy. In that long period of time any number of changes, whether voluntary or involuntary, could have been made.
2. The books of the Old Testament were written mostly in ancient Hebrew, a language which originally did not use written vowels. The Masoretes added vowels and punctuation, but this did not happen until the 7th through the 11th century AD (or so). Students of ancient Hebrew know that using one vowel in lieu of another can make a big difference in the meaning. So even if we had the real words of the Bible today, we still wouldn’t be sure what they meant.
3. The oldest manuscript of the New Testament is the Codex Sinaiticus. It dates from 300-350 AD, i.e. well over two hundred years after the passing of the authors in whose names they were written. It was discovered at the Monastery of St. Catherine in Sinai, Egypt, which was built on what is traditionally believed to be the site of Moses’ burning bush.
4. These New Testament manuscripts are in Greek. As you know the writers in whose name the Gospels and other books were written were NOT Greek. So a lot may have been lost in translation right from the start.
5. Both Bowman and Ehrman give specific examples of texts that were changed over the centuries. These changes include additions and omissions, honest mistakes as well as intentional alterations and interpretations. Considering the tools of the time, it was humanly impossible for the scribes not to make mistakes. But then, again, if they were truly inspired God would have guided their hands and their spirits.

You have every right to believe that the Bible is the Word of God, but it is a matter of faith, not truth. I am not downplaying faith. It may be a powerful gift, and I have no right or intention to try to take it away from you.

I will also add that, despite our differences, I am totally fascinated by the Bible. Not too long ago I personally climbed Mount Sinai and toured the monastery of St. Catherine there. I even took a picture of the lonely bush in the middle of the desert which some monks at the monastery still claim to be the one that burned for Moses.

But I am an analyst, and quite comfortable in that role. I feel that:
(a) if there is an all-powerful God who wanted the Word to be known through eternity, he/she/it would not have allowed it to wither away with time.
(b) Even as we have it today, the Bible is clearly a product of its time, with no prophetic value whatsoever. And
(c) many stories in the Bible, particularly in Genesis, are at odds with reality and some of them have been disproved by science.

By Charles Fiott (wrote 1421 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/10/2009 01:15 am

Charles,
You have asked two questions in post 49.
I)Your first question :Why do you have to interpret for everything?Why can’t accept THE WORD AS IT IS WRITTEN?You have asked nice questions.
1.a)One thing I learned is that the Bible is the Best interpreter.We have to allow the Bible to interpret a subject by itself.The subjects which are found in more parts of the Bible can be interpreted in more ways than the subjects which are found in lesser parts of the Bible.We have to check up whether a interpretation of a verse is found to be parallel with the interpretation of some other verse.
For example,the term “gravitational force” is not used in Job 26:7,but the suggestion of the fact is implied and we have Col.1:17 & Heb.1:3 as the other verses to support this fact.
When there is limitation for interpretation,we have to accept it by faith.
b)When we study a verse,it is important to note the context of that verse.
To understand the context of that verse,we may have to read carefully a few verses before that verse & a few verses after that verse or we may have to read the entire chapter or even we may have to read the entire Book in which it was found.
We have to ask a few questions for better understanding of that verse.(i)Who has spoken it? (ii)Of whom was it spoken? (iii)Where was it spoken? (iv)When was it spoken? (v)Why was it spoken?
When we find the answers to questions -like these ones,we will be able to understand that verse more clearly.Thus we are making an analytical approach to the study of a verse.
c)Charles,we discuss the verses of the Bible in the King James version Bible in English.Isn’t it?
Actually the Bible was written in Hebrew,Aramaic & Greek languages.I use to refer to the meanings of the Hebrew & Greek words used in the Bible ,if needed.But I do not Hebrew or Greek.I don’t know Aramaic as well.I have to depend on the Translated Bibles only.
Charles, Actually we are not discussing the Bible as it is written in the original languages.I can’t do it as I do not know those languages.
I believe that the King James version Bible is a wonderfully Translated Bible.There is no doubt about it.But it will be advantageous to compare the other translations.There are many translations available in the English language.Here are some of them:
(i)The Amplified Bible (ii)Contemporary English Version (iii)God’s Word translation (iv)Living Bible (v)The message (vi)New American Bible (vii)New American Standard Bible (viii)New century version (ix)New International version (x)New Jerusalem Bible (xi)New Living Translation (xii)New Revised Standard version (xiii)New testament in Modern English by J.B.Philips (xvi)Today’s English Version (xv)The King James Version/Revised Authorized Version (xvi)The New English Bible (xvii)Good News Bible.
I don’t refer to all the above translations frequently.I use the King James Version Bible & New international version for regular reading but refer to few other translations especially the Amplified Version when clarification & clarity are required.
If anyone knows other languages apart from English,it will be useful to read the Bible in those languages also to know the Bible well.
Here is an example.In the Amplified version of the Bible,we find the phrase”upon or over nothing” in Job 26:7.We see that Job has mentioned that earth does not hang upon something and it is not supported over something.
It is understood that the earth is held by the gravitational force.Job was answering the questions raised by Bildad.He had mentioned about the unsearchableness of God’s power.
d) Above all,we need the guidance of the Holy Spirit for understanding of the Word of God.
2)You’ve said that the Bible writers had not envisaged us going in a space craft.
Here is a verse which looks different.
“Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle,and though thou set thy nest among the stars,thence will I bring thee down,saith the Lord.” Obadiah 4.
Your question will be:”Where is the word “spacecraft”in that verse?Isn’t it?
It seems as if you are saying that you will believe the Bible only if you find the terms like “Gravitational force”,”Laws of Thermodynamics” etc. or the sentences like “The earth is round”,”The earth is held by gravitational force” etc.
Charles,you do not believe that the Scriptures are inspired by the Holy Ghost.You deny the existence of God.You deny the authenticity of the Word of God.You may be having your own views & beliefs.Everyone in the world has his own belief about God.That is not surprising because God is not forcing anyone to take a decision.God has given free will to every one.
II.Your second question:If the Bible is the Word of God,why would God allow His Word to disappear.
I will try to answer this question later.I think that will be a lengthy discussion.
Charles,In the mean time,please let me know something.
How do you know that the earliest copies of the Bible date from the 4th century A.D.How do you assume that the words of the Bible have changed a lot from one copy to another.
That’s all for now.Good bye.

By Alex (wrote 499 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/9/2009 13:36 pm

Alex, after reading posts 47 and 48 I can’t see how you can say that I misunderstood your interpretations. I understand them, but they are so far-fetched that it seems like you are practically trying to rewrite the Bible in your own words. So my first question is, Why do you have to reinterpret everything? Why can’t you accept THE WORD AS IT IS WRITTEN?

You are also misinterpreting me. The statement that you referred to was this: “if you only accept what the scriptures say and nothing else you probably don’t believe that men walked on the moon or that the world is round or that Obama is president” Now you apparently combed the Bible in search of any passages that may remotely suggest otherwise, but not a single one of your Bible examples states flat-out that the world is round. NOT ONE!

You again dwelt on Isaiah. We’ve already gone around this (see post 39). This is the only one of all your examples that could possibly indicate that one of the Bible authors may have known that the world was round. Now, if that’s the case, it would only indicate that some of the authors knew more than the others. And this would in turn indicate that not all of them were inspired by the same source. In other words my conclusion would be exactly the opposite of yours: the writers of the Bible were NOT inspired; they just wrote their own ideas.

You also made this claim: “I’ve already given examples of Bible believing Astronauts who walked on the moon and made history.” NO, Alex, you have not. You gave examples of what the astronauts said about the Bible, not vice-versa. The Bible writers may have believed that people could build a tower to heaven, but they never envisaged us going there in a spacecraft.

And neither does the phrase “upon or over nothing” indicate gravity. This is another one of your “interpretations”. If the writers knew about gravity they would have simply called it so and not waited three thousand years for someone to “interpret” them.

Alex, you make the word truth sound very hollow. Truth requires proof, and you cannot provide any. You cannot prove the existence of the Holy Ghost, let alone his inspiration. You cannot prove the authenticity of the Bible (see my next paragraph). You cannot prove anything you labeled as “TRUTH” in post 48.

Here’s a truth: YOU DON’T KNOW what the Bible says. Nobody does! That’s because none of the originals survive. The earliest surviving copies of the Bible date from the 4th century AD and, as you know, the words of the Bible have changed a lot from one copy to another. Even if the Bible is the truth, we have no way of knowing it.

So here’s my second question to you: If the Bible is the word of God, why would God allow his word to disappear?

By Charles Fiott (wrote 1421 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/7/2009 22:49 pm

Charles,
1)Earlier you’ve made a statement like this:A person who believes the Bible will not believe that the earth is round.
I’ve already mentioned that the 8th century B.C.prophet Isaiah has made a statement under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost in Isa.40:22:”It is he who sitteth upon the cycle of the earth…”.This statement clearly suggests the fact of a spherical earth in space.Isaiah has not given his own idea or concept.It is a revealed fact.
In the Amplified version of the Bible,we find Proverbs 8:27 as:
“When He prepared the heavens,I(Wisdom)was there;when He drew a circle upon the face of the deep and stretched the firmament over it.” Pro.8:27(Amp).
Here is another verse.”He that compassed the waters with bounds with day and night come to an end.”Job 26:10.This verse can be translated as:”He has described a circle upon the face of the waters at the boundary between light & darkness.”
Only if an object is spherical in shape,it will appear as a circle when viewed from any point on the surface.
The following verses also suggest that the earth is round.
“The wind goeth toward the south and turneth unto the north;it whirleth about continually and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.”
Eccl.1:6.We find this verse in Amplified Version as :”The wind goes to the south,and circles about to the north;it circles & circles about continually,
and on its circuit the wind returns again.”(John 3:8).[Eccl.1:6(Amp)].
“He stretcheth out the earth over the empty place,and hangeth the earth upon nothing.”Job 26:7.
Thus in the Bible we find many statements which indicate the roundness of the earth.I’ve already mentioned that Eratosthenes (276 B.C-
195 B.C.)has calculated the circumference of the earth with remarkable accuracy using geometry.But it was Galileo who has proved that the earth is round in the 16th century A.D.
The Bible does not contradict the concept proved by Science but supports it.The writers of the Bible were inspired by the Holy Spirit to write what is accurate and they did not write their own ideas & concepts.
Charles,Please refer commentary No.7 for Gen.1:16.You’ve already mentioned that the Bible gives credit to the fact of roundness of earth.
2)I quoted Job 26:7 to point out that the earth is held by the gravitational force.Look at this verse in the Amplified Version of the Bible.:
“He it is Who spreads out the northern skies and HANGS THE EARTH UPON OR OVER NOTHING.”Job.26:7(Amp).
Please note the phrase”Upon or over nothing.”.It suggests clearly to the fact of gravitational force holding the earth.It is not contradictory to the Theory of gravitational Force formulated by Sir.Isaac Newton in A.D.1687.
In our verse,it was spoken of God by Job.See what God Himself spoke about Job to one of his friends Eliphaz in Job 42:7 & 8.
“…My wrath is kindled against you and your two friends,for you’ve not spoken of me the thing that is right,as My servant Job has.”Job 42:7(Amp).
“..and My servant shall pray for you,for I will accept (his prayer) that I deal not unto you after your folly,in that you have not spoken of Me the thing that is right,as My servant Job has.” Job 42:8(Amp)
From these two verses,we understand that Job has made the statement in Job 26:10 about God under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost.God called him as his as servant.Job has spoken about God correctly.This verse contains revealed fact.
In addition,Col.1:17 & Heb.1:3 contain strong statements which suggest the fact that gravitational force holds the earth.
3)Charles,You’ve made a statement like this:Those who believe the Bible will not believe that men had walked on the moon.I’ve already given examples
of Bible believing Astronauts who walked on the moon and made history.
4)You also made a statement like this:People who believe the bible will not believe that Obama is the President of America.I think that it is a sarcastic statement.No problem.
Charles,do you mean that the people who believe the Bible do not read Newspapers or watch & listen to News broadcast.Actually the students & scholars of Bible prophecy look into the newspapers daily with a prophetic outlook.
5)As I said earlier,if you seek the TRUTH with a sincere heart and an open mind you will find it.
Jesus said:”I am the WAY,the TRUTH,and the LIFE.”John14:6.
In the scriptures we see a picture of Jesus Christ.
Jesus said:Sanctify them through the TRUTH;Thy WORD is TRUTH.”
Jesus Christ is the TRUTH..
The Bible is the TRUTH.
As I’ve mentioned earlier,Rom.1:20,Heb.3:4& Acts 14:7 indicate that the Nature gives witness to fact of the existence of God.
The Bible is the revealed Word of God.
6)The Creator of the world is the author of the Bible.The 66 Books of the Bible had been written by about 40 writers under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost over a span of 1600 years.
“For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man,but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” 1 Pet.2:21.
“All Scripture is given by inspiration of God.” 2 Tim.3:16.
The main theme of the Bible is about God’s plan of salvation for man from sin.But it contains details of history,Prophecy,Science etc.All the details given by the Bible are true and dependable.People doubt as they do not have sufficient facts or they do not to have them or believe them.
As I’ve said earlier,the Bible is not a Text Book of Science with all formulas and laws of science to be taught to the students of Science.But it is not contradicting to the facts proved by Science.That is the point I’ve mentioned when I said that the Bible contains scientifically proved facts.
Actually the Bible has made such statements even before they are proved by Science.The revealed facts of the Bible help us to understand things which cannot be discovered by any means.
Many prophecies of the Bible have been accurately fulfilled.The Bible also contains prophecies which are going to be fulfilled in the future.
They are archaeological evidences which have confirmed that the history written by the Bible writers is true and accurate.
We believe things that can be believed.
“Faith is the substance of things hoped for…” Heb.11:1.
7)To my understanding,there is no doubt about the authenticity of the Bible.
The Word of God is powerful & it can change the lives of men.Heb.4:12.
There are witnesses about men, who once said that there was no God,had changed their views after carefully & thoroughly reading the Bible.
Charles,I’ll discuss with you on the subject of the distance of stars & relevant matters later.Thank you.
That’s all for now.Good bye.
http://www.vbvbc.org/bible-verse/genesis1-16/

By Alex (wrote 499 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/7/2009 17:36 pm

Charles,
You have misunderstood my interpretations of the Scriptures.
You have misunderstood the Word of God also.
I will explain later.

By Alex (wrote 499 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/5/2009 14:55 pm

Alex, a scientifically proven fact is a theory that has been subjected to empirical evidence and verified to the point that it can be replicated with predictable results. For example, one of the ways to prove that the world is round is to fly around it in any direction and arrive back at the point of origin. This is a predictable result. This is proof.

This type of verifiable evidence is absent from your example. The statement “He hangeth the earth upon nothing” is not only unverifiable but it is actually not true. The world does not hang; it gravitates. Gravitating is in many ways the opposite of hanging. You hang something by using some device or force (e.g. a rope), to keep your subject from being pulled by gravity. Gravity on the other hand occurs when there is no such competing influence.

So, if anything, this passage from Job only strengthens my contention that the writers of the Bible had absolutely no idea of how the universe came to be. They just made things up.

Alex, when I was young I had what I thought was an unshakable faith in God. Faith by definition is not something that can be proven, and therefore I don’t understand why anyone would try to prove something that is unprovable. By the same token faith in something abstract (e.g. God or ghosts) cannot be disproved either. However a theory or a statement CAN be disproved, and there are a few in the Bible that have been proven wrong.

Let me give you one example. I am sure you agree that science today has an accurate idea of distances in space. Without this accuracy NASA wouldn’t have been able to send Galileo all the way to Jupiter and predict its time of arrival with any precision. The instruments that correctly calculated the distance to Jupiter also calculate the distance to the stars, most of which are millions of light years away. This means that the stars you see at night have been in existence for millions of years. Yet, acccording to the Bible, God created the stars only about six thousand years ago.

How do you explain that?

By Charles Fiott (wrote 1421 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/5/2009 00:50 am

Charles,
According to the Geocentric theory evolved by Ptolemy in the 2nd century,the Earth is the center of the Universe.This view was accepted upto the 16th century.
Nicholus Copernicus evolved the Heliocentric theory in 1543.
According to his theory,the Sun is the center of the Universe and the planets including the earth revolve around it.It is important to note that the planets Uranus,Neptune & Pluto have been discovered in the recent past only. (1781-1930).
It was Copernicus who had discovered that the Earth spins on its own axis and make one rotation in 24 hours.He had stated that that the Earth while rotating on its own axis revolves around the Sun along an elliptical path.It makes one complete revolution around the Sun once a year.
This is evidence for the fact that the views of the scientists & astronomers have been changing as advancement in technology goes on..
To my understanding,Job 38:14 suggests the fact that the earth rotates on its own axis.
Please read the commentary for Job 38:14.
http://www.vbvbc.org/bible-verse/job38-14/

By Alex (wrote 499 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/4/2009 23:54 pm

Charles,
Thank you for your comments in Commentary No. 43.
Here is an example for a scientifically proved fact in the Bible:

1)In ancient past,it was generally believed that the earth was held by giants or elephants or or by by some other means.They didn’t have any clue for the hanging of the earth upon nothing.
The Book of Job is one of the oldest Books of the Bible.It says:
“He stretched out the north and the empty place,and hangeth the earth upon nothing.” Job 26:7.
In 1687 A.D. Sir.Isaac Newton has found that it is the gravitational force which holds the earth and heavenly bodies.But the author of the Book of job had long back stated that “He hangeth the earth upon nothing.”
Col.1:17 says,”And he is before all things,and by him all things consist.” The theory of gravitational force formulated by Sir.Isaac newton is the explanation for “by him all things consist.”
“…upholding and maintaining and guiding and propelling the Universe by His mighty word of power…” Heb.1:3(Amp).
God created the world by His Word.It is the Word which upholds the world.
The truth that the earth hangs upon nothing is understood by this verse also.
2)In the space there are some places where there are no stars.The fact has been discovered very recently only.The truth of “empty place” in space has been mentioned in the Book of Job .(Job 26:7)
Please read the commentary for Job 26:7 also.
http://www.vbvbc.org/bible-verse/job26-7/

By Alex (wrote 499 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/4/2009 05:14 am

Alex, it’s been good debating with you and I look forward for future contributions from you.

By Charles Fiott (wrote 1421 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/4/2009 02:30 am

1)Charles,Thank you very much for your comments in commentary No.39.
You have said that you are concerned about proved facts.It is good.The recent arguments arose from the statement of Jeyant Christian.”The Bible begins with God.It takes for granted that there is God and doesn’t require to prove that there is God.” Is it not?
I asked a few questions to you not to test your knowledge but to know your stand & belief and the basis of your belief.I am happy that you have
answered those questions with pleasure.
The Bible does not make a debate.It does not argue.Perhaps it may not try to prove the existence of God.
Jeyant Christian,Please note that the Bible has some verses to think whether
there is God or not.
“For(of course)every house is built and furnished by someone,but the Builder
of all things and the Furnisher(of the entire equipment of all things)is God.Heb.3:4(Amp)
If there is a building,there must be a builder who has built that building.
A building cannot come into existence by itself without a builder.Likewise Nature manifests that there must be a Creator.
“For ever since the creation of the world,His invisible nature & attributes,
that is His eternal power and divinity,have been made intelligible and clearly discernible in and through the things that have been made(his handiworks).So (men)are without excuse[altogether without any defense or justification].Ps.19:1-4.”–Rom.1:20(Amp).
The sun,moon,stars & all creation speak about the majesty and power of God.Please read ps.8;104:24-26;139:11-16;Isa.40;26;Jer.31:35;33:22.
Please read what Paul & Barnabas had told the people at Lystra after the healing of a crippled man.:
“Nevertheless he (God) left not himself without a witness,and gave us rain from heaven,and fruitful seasons,filling our hearts with food& gladness.” Acts 14:17.
2)Charles,I accept that there might have been people(scientists,astronomers,
mathematicians)in some parts of this world who had the view that the earth is round before Pythagoras has explained it in about 506 B.C. even though there is no clear evidence for that.O.K.That is not a big problem.
Isaiah has compared the Creator with the human beings in Isaiah 40:22.
The people of the earth were insignificant before the Creator.So he said that the people of the earth are like grasshoppers before the mighty Creator.
In Isaiah 40:15,he said,”Behold,the nations are as a drop of a bucket and are counted as the small dust of the balance,behold he taketh up the isles as a very little thing.”
Isaiah has used similes.
In Isaiah 40:26,he mentioned about the innumerable stars in the heaven to point out the greatness of God’s might & power.
Perhaps Isaiah might not be knowing that the earth is round.But he had written the Scriptures as he was moved by the Holy Ghost.
“For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the holy Ghost.” 2 Pet.1:22.
3)In the Amplified version of the Bible,we find Pro.8:27 as:
“When He prepared the heavens I (Wisdom)was there;when He drew a circle upon the face of the deep and stretched out the firmament over it.”
4)The invention of telescope was an important event in the history of Science.Because of the development of technology, we are able to know the amazing facts about the wonders of creation.
5)Charles,I will try to give a few examples for the scientifically proved facts contained in the Bible later.
6)I believe that Genesis is an important Book of the Bible.But as I have said earlier,it does not contain all the details of creation.I believe that it contains revealed facts.
“Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.”
Heb.11:3.
7)Charles,you have inclined to the belief of the evolution theory.That is your personal belief.But you have said that you believe that it will take a few centuries for the theory of evolution to be proved.You said that the theory of evolution has good observation and in fact evidences.
I did not attempt to convince you that the Bible is true.
But I have gone through some materials which I think are convincing
evidences for the fact that the Bible is True.
You are a searcher of truth.I hope that if you search for the TRUTH in sincere heart & open mind,you will find it.
Charles,thank you for your comments in commentary no.40.I will give my response for that later.
Thank you for taking time to discuss with me.

By Alex (wrote 499 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/3/2009 05:55 am

Ref:Commentary No.28 by Terik Q:
1)”Elohim”
“Elohim” is a plural word which may appear along with both singular as well as plural verbs & pronouns.In Gen.1:1,the plural noun God “Elohim” is joined with singular verb created “bara”.The word “Elohim” suggests plurality of majesty & plenitude of power in using God’s creation & governing of man & world.This word occurs about 2500 times in the Bible.It is used 32 times in Gen.1.It conveys the idea of creative & governing power,of omnipotence& sovereignty.Omnipotence is expressed by the words & actions of Elohim.He brings cosmos out of chaos,light out of darkness,
habitation out of desolation & creates life in His own image.
2)”the earth,which is the third planet third rock from the sun,where every organism lives”
Out of the nine planets in our Solar system only Earth,which is the 5th largest planet,has ideal conditions for the sustenance of human life,animal life and plant life.Water,oxygen and the required temperature necessary for the existence of men are available only on Earth.
“The heaven,even the heavens are the LORD’S:but the earth hath he given to the children of men.” Psalm 115:16.
Earth which is called the “Water Planet” is the only planet on which water is available,as nearly 70% of the Earth’s surface is covered by water.
Atmosphere surrounding at equal distance of 1600 km around the earth has 77 to 78% nitrogen,21% oxygen,1% Argon,Hydrogen,Carbon-Di-Oxide,helium,Ozone etc.
Mercury & Venus are very much near the Sun & the temperature is very high & so human beings cannot live there.Jupiter,Saturn,Uranus,Neptune,Pluto are very far away from the Sun & the temperature is very low & they are not suitable for men to live there.(Jupiter,Saturn,Uranus& Neptune are larger than the earth.Pluto is the smallest planet.).There is no evidence of existence of human beings in Mars which is the next planet away from the Sun.So the Earth is not far away from the Sun or so near to the Sun when compared to the other planets.The average temperature of the Earth when it is against the Sun is 17 degrees C which is suitable for the existence of human beings.
“..God himself that formed the earth and made it;he hath established it,he created it not in vain,he formed it TO BE INHABITED……”Isaiah 45:18

By Alex (wrote 499 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/2/2009 05:39 am

Alex, thanks for your comments on posting no. 38 but I have to admit I don’t get your point. Excited astronauts who happen to be Christian do not constitute any link between the moon and the Bible. Nor do I see any connecton between Eratosthenes and the Genesis and Jeremiah lines that you quoted. Sorry!

By Charles Fiott (wrote 1421 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/1/2009 22:22 pm

Alex, I am glad you are finally debating (and not just asking “testing” questions.) I am responding to the numbered points you made in Post # 37.

1. You asked me “why did you worry that Genesis did not tell the fact that the earth is round”

I am looking for facts, so I always get concerned when anybody publishes statements that are either false or misleading.

2. You said “There is no evidence before Pythagoras,for giving the fact of the roundness of the earth.”

Yes, but you can’t conclude that he was the first to know. I mentioned that during lunar eclipses ancient astronomers could notice the round shape of Earth as its shadow moved across the face of the moon. Astronomers in Egypt predicted solstices and eclipses with perfect accuracy long before Isaiah was born and it is hard to imagine that they were unaware that the world was round.

Still, this does not mean that Isaiah necessarily knew that Earth is round. Isaiah was trying to describe a view from heaven, from where “people are like grasshoppers”. This of course exposes some ignorance on the part of the prophet. Such a description would much better fit a hilltop view. When you look from an elevated spot, your horizon is a circle. So the world “circle” in Isaiah 40:22 may refer to the expanse of the earth’s surface, not to the shape of the entire planet.

3. You quoted Pro.8:27 and the word “compass”, which you say refers to “circle”.

Not really. Compass refers to direction, not shape.

4. You noted that Eratosthenes was the first man to calculate the circumference of the earth and Galileo the first to prove that Earth is round.

This seems to be true.

5. You said that the Bible “contains facts which are scientifically proved.”

Can you give me some examples?

6. This does not elicit any comments.

7. You asked me whether if I believe in creation or evolution

Creation stories were proposed at least three thousand years ago not only by Jews but by several communities around the world. Some call them theories while others believe they lack any observations that would qualify them as such. Evolution on the other hand has lots of observations, even evidence. But this is a very young theory – less than 200 years old. As you noted in point no. 4 it took 18 centuries for the theory of the spherical shape of Earth to be proven right. I guess we may likewise have some centuries to wait before we can prove evolution.

By Charles Fiott (wrote 1421 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/1/2009 22:00 pm

1)Charles,you have mentioned about Eratosthenes in commentary No.36.
You may know that it was he who has measured the tilt of the earth’s axis of rotation from the perpendicular to its original plane as 23.5 degrees.
This is the reason for the occurrence of various seasons on the surface oft the earth.Please read Gen.8:22;Jer.33:20,25.
2)Charles,you mentioned about man walking on the moon in commentary No.31.I want to remind you some incidents which happened in the past in this regard.
3)It is known that the crew of Apollo 8 has showed the photos of the earth & the moon in 1968 in a television broadcast on Christmas Eve.It is interesting to know that they have read the first 10 verses of Genesis chapter 1 in that program.
4)We very well know that Neil Armstrong was the first man to set foot on moon on July 21,1969.He has said,”This is one small step for man,but one great leap for mankind.”
Aldrin was the another astronaut who walked on the moon later.It is said that he has said in a television broadcast on July 23,1969, that a verse from Psalms has come to his mind:
“When I consider the heavens,the work of thy fingers,the moon and the stars,which thou hast ordained,What is man,thou art mindful of him?…” Psalm 8:3,4.
It is learnt that he has written this portion of the Scriptures & left it in the moon.
5)It is learnt that the astronaut Mitchell had carried the Microfilm Bible with him to the moon in Apollo 14 in 1971.
Charles,It is interesting to know the link between the moon and the Bible.

By Alex (wrote 499 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/1/2009 15:10 pm

1)Thank you for your comments,Charles.
When I asked you,”Actually who discovered the fact that the earth is round?
When?”,you in turn asked me,”Why is that important?”.Charles,then why did you worry that Genesis did not tell the fact that the earth is round.In fact,Genesis does not contain full details of creation.That’s why there are many different views among us.
2)You said that Isaiah 40:22 may imply the fact that the earth is round.I am happy that you’ve quoted that.
“It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth…” Here undoubtedly Isaiah gives the fact that the earth is round.
The mathematician Pythagoras told that the earth is round only around 506 B.C.Unfortunately others did not accept the fact.There is no evidence before Pythagoras,for giving the fact of the roundness of the earth.Isaiah lived in Jerusalem in the 8th century B.C.So even before Pythagoras has told that the earth is round,Isaiah has given the fact.
3)There is another verse which implies the fact that the earth is round.
“…When he set a compass upon the face of the earth…”Pro.8:27.The word “compass” refers to “circle”.This statement is made in poetic form by King Solomon who lived around 1000 B.C.
4)I came to know that Eratosthenes (276 B.C-195 B.C)who was a Greek mathematician & astronomer was the first man to calculate the circumference of the earth with remarkable accuracy using geometry.
But it is said that Galileo,the 16th century Italian astronomer has proved that the earth is round.
5)The Bible is not a text book of Science with all formulas & laws of science.But it contains facts which are scientifically proved.The main theme of the Bible is about the plan of salvation of man.
6)Genesis is called the “Seed plot of the Bible”.It contains all the major themes of the Bible in seed forms which are developed in the remaining Books of the Bible.
7)Charles,there is one question I like to ask you.
What do you believe?Creation or evolution?

By Alex (wrote 499 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/1/2009 12:18 pm

Alex, why is that important? We don’t really know for sure who first determined with any certainty that the world is round, do we? We know that ancient astronomers observed the round shape of Earth’s shadow as it moved across the face of the moon in lunar eclipses. The Egyptians may have known this more than a thousand years before Moses, but the writers of Genesis did not pick up on it. The only part of the Bible which may imply that the world is round is Isaiah 40:22. By that time Pythagoras and others were advancing the idea of a spherical Earth, and therefore this is no surprise. By the year 240 BC we had the first-known measurement of Earth’s circumference, conducted by Eratosthenes.

The only thing I can say for certain is that Genesis did NOT tell us that the world is round. On the contrary, its description of the world and the universe is totally erroneous.

By Charles Fiott (wrote 1421 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/1/2009 05:26 am

Charles,
Actually who discovered the fact that the earth is round?when?

By Alex (wrote 499 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/1/2009 00:08 am

Alex, what does creation mean to you? When someone composes a piece of music or an essay, we may say that he or she “created” something. This may or may not be the correct term, but it is a term that we can all relate to. However when it comes to “creating” something physical, the idea becomes quite complex because nobody has been known to actually make something out of nothing. Both scientists and creationists have come up with various ideas of how the universe came to be, but neither group has ever been able to prove the physical creation of anything.

We will not know the truth about the beginning of the universe in our lifetime. We can only pass on what little knowledge we gain to future generations. Remember, it took humans millions of years to find out that their world was round and that it is only one little speck in a vast universe. Our search for the truth has barely begun.

By Charles Fiott (wrote 1421 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 2/28/2009 17:31 pm

Charles,
If God is not the Truth,what is your explanation for creation?

By Alex (wrote 1 Bible Commentary - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 2/28/2009 00:42 am

Jayant Christian wrote: “The Bible begins with God. It takes for granted that there is God and doesn’t require to prove that there is God.”

Therein lies the problem. People abide by their different version of God (or supreme leader, or whatever) and they discard any obligation to prove anything. No wonder we have all these wars and killings.

Truth by definition is only what can be empirically proven and predicted. Therefore, by definition, the Bible is NOT the truth and God is NOT the truth.

By Charles Fiott (wrote 1421 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 2/27/2009 17:57 pm

I just caught this message from Donald: “In regards to the theory that millions of years transpired between Gen.1:1 and Gen.1:2, does anyone have any Scriture references that “hint” at this possiblity?

Donald, first of all if you only accept what the scriptures say and nothing else you probably don’t believe that men walked on the moon or that the world is round or that Obama is now president of the United States. The Bible doesn’t acknowledge any of these “possibilities”. Open your eyes to truths that we do not get from the scriptures.

Second, scientists understand distance in space so well that they were able to send Galileo all the way to Jupiter an predict exactly when it was going to get there. These scientists tell us that the stars you see at night are millions of light years away, which means that they have been around for millions of years, which means millions of years transpired during the “seven days of creation”. Is this enough “hint” for you that the Bible is NOT a source of truth?

By Charles Fiott (wrote 1421 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 2/27/2009 17:43 pm