Genesis 1: 1 Commentary

Ref. post 149, here’s the difference between science and religion. In sience we start by making observations and testing all hypotheses in a continuing attempt to arrive at the truth. In religion it’s the opposite: we start with a declaration that we already know the truth and work backward trying to prove our beliefs to be correct. I believe the science way is the honest way.

By Charles Fiott (wrote 1421 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 6/15/2010 01:00 am

For science also it is like this. Earlier it was maintained that the atom is indivisible, but we now have the atomic energy by dividing the atom.There are many things for which our understanding has changed a lot. Earlier dear Charles has agreed that there could be many possibilities to look at the creation of the universe. We keep learning. How much more it is difficult to know God and his mirculous workings?

By Jayant Christian (wrote 287 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 6/14/2010 23:20 pm

Ref. post 147 and others.

For most of our existence most people were convinced that Earth was flat and those who argued otherwise were not treated kindly. Eventually most people accepted the fact that Earth wasn’t flat but still refused to believe that it was a mere planet that revolved around the sun. Those who argued otherwise were scorned, excommunicated, and burned at the stake. Today most people have finally had to accept the truth about the Earth’s rotation, but they still cling to the failed accounts of its creation. The creation controversy is no different from the previous two. Again the majority of people are much more comfortable hanging on to hand-me-down beliefs than accepting any evidence to the contrary.

I have read different versions of the first chapter of Genesis and always concluded that the sky stands above us like a dome, the stars are but tiny little lightbulbs, and the sun and moon were put there after Earth took its current, flat shape. That’s what the Holy Book clearly assumes. The defenders of Genesis keep doing their utmost to make it “right” but every time I read it I get totally convinced that its writers would have flunked a basic test in astronomy or geography. Why should I believe a book that got it all so wrong?

By Charles Fiott (wrote 1421 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 6/10/2010 15:13 pm

Reference post No. 11,13, 20 and some other posts made thereafter.

Charless fiott has raised some crucial points with regard to the Biblical account of creation as given in Genesis Chapter one; such as, how can there be evening and morning on the very first day without the Sun being already in place and the earth revolving on its axis and around the sun, as the sun, the moon and the stars were made on the forth day? How can the earth precede the sun? Based on the scientific knowledge, he has concluded that the Bible is not true. I was greatly disturbed at that, but I didn’t doubt what the Bible has to say. I believed that something must be wrong in our understanding of the text and kept on thinking on the matter. I just woke up at 3 AM on 10/06/10 and was found thinking on it. As I got some clues, I immediately wrote down and am now posting my comments, after being silent over the matter for a long time.

The Biblical account of creation doesn’t say when the water was made. It doesn’t say that the light was created on the first day. In fact, God is the Father of all lights and is himself light. (James 1:17), but that the light was commanded to shine in the darkness that covered the waters, suggesting that the light was already there.

Again the account says that the earth was formless (without order) and void (empty). It doesn’t however say that the heavens were so-formless or void. They were filled with all the celestial bodies like the galaxies, the starts, the sun, the moon and also angelic beings as well. The angels were there singing praises to God, when God laid the foundation of the earth (Job38:4-7). But in the account of Genesis, we do not find praises of the angels. Only God praises His own works of creation: It was good or very good. The man was now to praise His creator. Thus, this account doesn’t focus on laying the foundation of the earth- its initial creation.

When we come to the fourth day, we have the description of the Sun and the moon as bigger and lesser lights and the stars. The fourth day also starts with God commanding the lights (plural) to separate the day and the night. After that we have mention of making of the sun, the moon and the stars. Verse 16 reads as, “God made the lights”. But in Hebrew, a verb implies that an action is either completed or incomplete and the verb can be translated either as the past tense or as the past perfect tense in English. As her also the lights were commanded, it shows that they were already in place there. Verse 16 should thus read as “God had made tow lights,” suggesting that the sun, the moon and the stars were created earlier with the creation of heavens and the earth in the beginning, and not made on the fourth day! Even the water must have been created at that time.

God is the God of order. He would not create something that is formless (without order) and void (empty), but it would be beautiful. The condition of the earth as being formless and void is therefore the result of the judgment of God upon the earth in the pre-Adamite period. This may suggest the revolt of Lucifer the Satan. The Genesis account this speaks of the restoration of the earth making it habitable for Adam and eve- for humankind.

Thus, the order of the events seems to be: the creation of the heavens with all its celestial bodies and the earth in the absolute beginning; Destruction of the earth, making it desolate and without form and covered with the dense darkness; God restoring the earth and its environment for man to live in. This is done is seven days, by the command of God, except that Adam and Eve were made on the sixth day. As the Sun, the moon and the stars were already there, God had just to command the light/ lights to shine in the darkness. Thus the occurring of evening and morning could take place from the very first day.

By Jayant Christian (wrote 287 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 6/9/2010 23:34 pm

Roland G certainly has the right to his opinions, but he has no right to change the Bible.

1. Genesis does not indicate in any way that “all three members of the Godhead Three played a role in creation”. There is no reference at all to “the other two”. This continues to be the case after the creation. Noah, Abraham and everybody else only prayed to, talked to, and feared one God.

2. Roland G’s definition of heaven is again contrary to the Bible. Genesis does not indicate in any way that the world is round and therefore heaven does not “surround” Earth, as he claims. Heaven in the Bible is always somewhere “up there”, as in the Babel story.

3. I agree with Roland G that “the earth took billions of years to shap and form” . . . well, I almost agree. In reality Earth’s shape and form are still changing. But this is not what Genesis says. Genesis says it was there (or created) in the beginning and then it took just a day or two for all the “shaping and forming”.

Why do people keep trying to alter the words of the Bible?

By Charles Fiott (wrote 1421 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/10/2010 00:47 am

“In the beginning”
This “beginning” differs from the “beginning” referred to in John 1:1 (God existed before the creation of angelic beings and, a fortiori, mankind). This “beginning” refers to that moment in time when God created all heavenly and earthly elements putting them into motion.

“God”
“Elohim,” in the original Hebrew tongue is plural to indicate that all three members of the Godhead Three(i.e. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit) played a role in creation).

“created”
All of the elements which comprise the heaven and the earth were created.

“the heaven”
This “heaven” refers to an area of space of unknown perimerter surrounding the earth called the first heaven. The “heaven” where God and angelic creatures reside is referred to as the third heaven (2 Cor. 12:2)

“and the earth.”
The earth took billions of years to shap and form. It did not instantly appear in a final shape or form as evidenced from Gen 1:2.

By Roland G. (wrote 1416 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/9/2010 23:56 pm

Verse 1: This is the ground work for a relationship with the creator and his creation. I think that God, through Moses, is demonstrating His magnificence. Here is a being that spoke heaven and earth into being. God knew that man would fail, but He wanted man first, to know who He was, to let man know that he could have everything he could ever want if he depended on God. There is no question that God wanted fellowship with His entire creation.

By Bernard "Ben" Denis (wrote 1 Bible Commentary - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/8/2010 18:51 pm

In the begining,God created the heavens earlier,he thought of creating the earth when He saw the need for man,and decided to make all that man would need before making him as you will find out.Have you ever asked yourself where God was when creating the heaven & earth?

By Douglas 'kanye (wrote 4 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/7/2010 19:19 pm

Thank you Constant for your study and sharing with us all.

Every langauage has its own peculiarity. In Sanskrit Grammar,there are three persons, three numbers (Singular, plural and for two),three genders, eight cases and three tenses and in all cases there are different forms! Hebrew has its own peculiarities as well. You have said that the word Elohim denotes three, if we consider the Numbers in its grammar. Could you please explain this in detail or suggest some supportive material to look into?

By Jayant Christian (wrote 287 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/6/2010 22:40 pm

A basic Study of the Book of Genesis

CHAPTER 1
“Ray-sheeth Bara Elohim Eth Ha-Shamayim we’th Ha’arets”. Gen.1:1 (In Hebrew)
Elohiym’s (God’s) wonderful creation
1. In the beginning (re’shiyth “ray-sheeth” Strong’s # 7225) God (Elohiym “El-o-heem” אֱלוֹהִים , אלהים, Strong’s # 430)
Elohiym (“El-o-heem” אֱלוֹהִים , אלהים,)
The divine name “Elohiym” is used in the Bible 2500 times; 35 times regarding the creation (Page No.46,47 The name above all names by Donstanton). Elohiym is the divine name of the Triunion God Almighty. In the original language Hebrew, the word Elohiym is an uni-plural form. In Hebrew language the plural form is three or more numbers. It means Elohiym is in plural as well as singular can appear in single person or three persons. Elohiym is the Trinity noun form of the Biblical definition which now we are believing and worshiping. Lord Almighty Elohiym is the Trinitarian God. All the ‘im’ ending noun forms are as uni-plural meaning in the original language. Such as the Lord Elohiym can appear as a single person and also in three different personalities. As now we are worshiping Lord the Father Yahweh, The Son Jesus Christ, and The Holy Spirit.
(240 times as plural name of “gods”, and twice to Ashtoreth – the goddess of the Zidonians. 1 Kig. 11:5, 33.)
created (Bara “Baw-raw” Strong’s # 1254) Gen. 1:1; 21,27,27,27, 2:3,4, 5:1,2,2, 6:7; Dut.4:32; Ps 89:12, 102:18, 25, 90: 2; 104:30, 148:5,Eccl.11:5; Isa.40:26, 41:20, 42:5, 43:1,7; 44:24; 45:12,18,18, 48:7,54:16,16; Jer.10:16; 31:22; Eze.21:30, 28:13,15; Mal.2:10; Jh. 1:3; Col. 1:16; Heb. 1:2)
Note:- It is very interesting that, if we study the word by word of this first verse as an original Language. For Creation act there are six Hebrew words are used in first Chapter Gen. also according the creation account referred in the Bible. They are Bara, Asab, Nathan, Yatser, Banah, Qanah (Bible for Spirit Filled Living Page 7).
Bara:-
The word “Bara” (“bah-rah” Strong’s # 1254) means in English created but in the Biblical Language it means only Lord Elohiym can accomplish this act; creation from nothing. It is exclusively used with God (Elohiym) as its subject, indicating that only God (Elohiym) can accomplish this activity. The word is used most often for creation of Universe (Gen. 1:1; 21,27,27,27, 2:3,4, 5:1,2,2, 6:7; Dut.4:32; Ps 89:12, 102:18, 104:30, 148:5, ; Isa.40:26, 41:20, 42:5, 43:1,7; 45:12,18,18, 48:7,54:16,16; Jer.31:22; Eze.21:30, 28:13,15; Mal.2:10, ) (BSB).
Asaw:-
The word Asab means “To make” or “To do” (asah “aw-saw” Strong’s # 6213)it is used of God’s creation Gen. 1: 7,16 25, 26; 2:2.
Nathan:-
The word Nathan means “To set” (Nathan “naw-than” Strong’s # 5414) Gen. 1:17
Yatsar:-
The word Yastar means “Form or Fashion” (yatsar “yaw-tsar” Strong’s # 3335) Gen. 2:7, Creation of Adam
Banah:-
The word Banah means “To make or Build” (banah “baw-naw” Strong’s # 1129) Gen. 2:22.
Qanah:-
The word Quanah means “posses or acquire” (Qanah “kaw-naw” Strong’s # 7069) Gen. 14:19.
the heaven (shamayim “shaw-mah-yim” Strong’s # 8064) and the earth (erets “eh-rets” Strong’s # 776). Ref.Job 38:4-5, Ps. 8:3, 33:6,9, 89:11,12; 90:2,102:25, 104:5,6,24; 136:5, Isa. 40:21,22; 42:5,44:24, 45:18, 66:1,2, John1:1-3, Acts 14:15, 17:24, Rom.1:20;Col. 1:16,17; Heb.1:2,10, 11:3; Rev. 4:11.
Hashamayim (Shamayim):-
The word Shamayim translated in the Bible as Heaven; but Shamayim also an uni-plural form meaning of three heavens. The only one word is in Hebrew language as representing about the Heaven, Constellation and the Atmospheric space of the earth. The Bible is also telling the three heavens 2nd Cori. 12:2, Deut.10:14, Eph.4:10, 1King. 8:27, Neh.9:6, Ps.115:16. (shamayim “shaw-mah-yim” Strong’s # 8064)
A. Shamayim (Heaven):- Is Kingdom of God dwelling. Lord Elohiym and all the Heavenly beings. Deut.10:14, Eph.4:10, 1King. 8:27, Neh.9:6, Ps.115:16.
Third heaven – home of the heavenly beings.
B. Shamayim (Constellation):- Stars and all the Solar system. (Groups of stars form patterns in the night sky, which are called Constellations. There are 88 known Constellations Whitaker’s World of Facts page21,22)
Second heaven – home of the sun, moon, and stars.
C. Shamayim (Atmospheric space):- It is the Atmosphere of the Earth as surrounding in the surface of the earth as six layers. It was created by Lord Elohiym at the time of creation is recorded by Him in Gen. 1:1, Job. 9:8, Ps. 104:2, Isa: 40:22 “It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in”. Isa.42:5, 44:24, Jer. 10:12 etc.
First heaven – home of the birds and clouds Dan. 4:12.
Earth (erets “eh-rets” Strong’s # 776): -
This is my personal work of Gen. Study, only started. by AE Constant

By AE Constant (wrote 1 Bible Commentary - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/6/2010 04:08 am

That’s a loaded question but I’d say John 3:16. Yet, without the context of the rest of the Bible, it may seem to lose its significance.

By Jason (wrote 314 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 2/28/2010 23:01 pm

What verse in the Bible contains the plan of salvation

By sis gracellen (wrote 1 Bible Commentary - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 2/28/2010 21:54 pm

Ryan, that’s a very good question. I posted a comment in Genesis 6:13 that addresses your comments.

By Charles Fiott (wrote 1421 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 10/22/2009 19:00 pm

Can i ask a question about the flood only being in one corner of the world. what then was the purpose of noah gathering all the animals? if i am to believe that the flood didnt cover the entire earth someone is going to have to shed some light on this.
thx

By Ryan Dittmann (wrote 4 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 10/22/2009 17:43 pm

I like it too bro. Haskins….He’s the One Who stepped out on nothing and created everything. Bless His Holy Name.

By Jason (wrote 314 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 10/18/2009 00:29 am

Well, Genesis 1:1. “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. What a way to open the Word of God. What a plainness, yet what glory shines forth. God’s glory just shouts out at us as the Bible declares that he created the world. There is no other God not allah, not buddah. No it is Jehovah God. The God of heaven, the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. He is the God of Israel. He is the King of the universe, He is the king of kings and lord of lords. There is none as powerful as He. If we can get a hold of that in our daily lives. We would have every reason to put our faith and trust in Him. Trust in the Lord.

By Jordan Haskins (wrote 4 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 10/17/2009 04:31 am

Open Invitation: Read through the Torah in one year. Rabbinic & Messianic Jews read through the 1st 5 books in a year. Begin today (10/11/09) w/ Genesis 1. By sundown on Saturday (10/17/09) read Gen 1:1 - 6:8. I personally don’t plan on commenting on every verse, as this website recommends. Actually, I’ve already have commentaries posted on the 1st 9 chapters of Genesis. My 1st post on Gen 1:1 was #28 & my last was #124 (but that was a tangent). In the near future, I plan to focus on those Scriptures that are referenced in the 613 commandments. During my past commentaries I left a post under Gen 1:28. Check it out if you like. I might leave more postings after Gen chap 9 when/if inspiration strikes me.

By Terik Q (wrote 65 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 10/11/2009 12:38 pm

When I read the totality of Genesis Chapter 1, I am left virtually breathless at the realization of the “perfection” of all the elements “created” by God to provide this earth.
When I listen to the various and sundry “theories” concerning the origin of man, I am inevitably left with so many questions. It is like that all add up to “close” but no cigar. I am reminded of the analogy of a chimpanzee being set before a typewriter and just happening to type the Encyclopedia Britannica in its entirety. The absurdity of this supposition, in addition to the incalculable odds of such an event occurring, gives me great comfort in the wisdom of acknowledging a “Creator” (aka “God”) who got it right the first time around.
Our very limited forays into space, gathering information about planets like Venus, Mars or Jupiter, show us the impossibility of life, as we know it. While each of these offer certain aspects of the requirements to sustain life, they lack the exact combination of “ingredients” to foster life (as we know it) or to support any form of “humanity”.
How do I feel about the possibility of the existence of other “life” or “life forms”? In my mind, the jury is out on that question. The God that I know and serve is just SO awesome, that I do not feel qualified to offer any definitive answers to this question. Yes, I believe in angels, simply because I am a believer in His Word. And they are definitely a “different” life form, in several aspects. I do not find any specific pronouncement in Scripture that “WE” (the souls of the planet Earth) are the ONLY “creations” of God. If I actually believe in the infinite power of such an amazing “Creator”, it would be silly of me to speak on His behalf and declare that WE are the limit of His creation. Man IS ego, and the ultimate ego display is, in MY humble opinion, the man who believes that MAN is all that there is.
I have to be very honest here. I am going to say something that may well be blasted to pieces, but I can handle it. To ME, the most fascinating thing about God is that HE brought this world into existence, created MAN and then set him free to operate with FREE WILL.
Imagine creating a computer program from start to finish and then giving that program a little additional feature: the ability to go its own way…with no limits. LOL! Talk about the stuff that science fiction is made of! I believe that we live in a perfect duality. EVERY CHOICE presented to us has the capacity for GOOD or EVIL. Imagine the computer programmer “releasing” HIS program, with TOTAL FREEDOM to do what IT sees fit! Would it grow to take over the world to destruction or to the creation of a virtual heaven? The permutations of this thought are endless!
I honor and worship God for His boldness in creating us and turning us loose with this capacity known as “Free Will”.
The second thought that I have had, for a long time, must appear, on its surface, to be nearly blasphemous, and I trust that HE will straighten me out eventually, even if it takes eternity to do so.
The ONE solid requirement of God is TOTAL WORSHIP of HIM! HE makes no bones about being a very jealous God. Whenever WE, with our finite minds, attempt to “comprehend” GOD, with all of the inherent aspects of omniscience, omnipresence, etc., I (and I want to make it perfectly clear that I am solely responsible for what I am about to say…it is the product of my own mind!!!!) find God to be very sadly BORING! To simply KNOW ALL…from beginning to end, even to process an infinite number of possibilities, with total knowledge of REALITY, within the framework of the absolute non-existence of time….it simply leaves me a bit saddened.
I have heard so many descriptions of “heaven” and “eternity”, and, frankly, most of them are colored by our limited existence. History is filled with “great” spokesmen for God who have painted pictures of God and eternity that simply appeal to our flesh. It is like going to that great McDonald’s in the sky, or standing in front of a Las Vegas slot machine that only gives us winners.
We are here on Genesis, the very first Chapter, but I wish to direct the attention of you truly wonderful, thoughtful people to another portion of Scripture. This portion of Scripture has me utterly and totally stumped. And I find a terrible paucity of Biblical commentary concerning this. It is a very disturbing (to my mind) portion of Scripture, and I will end this long note by asking each of you to look at Isaiah, Chapter 66…specifically verses 19-24.
To cut to the chase here, my “problem” in these verses has to do with a “picture” of “us” in eternity gazing upon the souls (and their horrid condition) on a regular basis, in all of the horror of their sufferings and torments and yet, living in “heaven” in a state of total joy, with NO sorrow (hey, imagine if I had, from what I gather of these few verses, to regularly see some people in “hell”…I just can’t imagine that I would be so utterly blissful and perpetually happy.
Hey, if anyone can help on this, I will be forever grateful.
I haven’t had any replies in the past few days, so I truly hope that all of you are doing just wonderfully.
I humbly await your responses.
Stormer

By Jim Wilkes (wrote 3 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 9/5/2009 06:12 am

Okay! It is nice to see this group alive and kicking! I thank each of you for your warm, frank welcome. Did I mention that I am 62? But, the nice thing is that I am not one of those people who ever think age gives you the right to stop learning. Nice reply, Charles, and that is really the first time I have had a worthwhile retort to that.

There is something very important that I have learned over the years. I think that most people tend to see their “religious faith” in terms dictated by their upbringing.

It has always amazed me that some “white people” preach hatred against the Jews, forgetting or refusing to acknowledge that the Lord Himself was anything but white and totally Jewish.

When I think of all the paintings I have seen, especially the “famous” ones, even the best of the European Masters could not quite bring themselves to see Him correctly. In general, I don’t think people come to these conclusions deliberately. It is just that one becomes accustomed to certain things and they “become” “the truth” without any further thought. In using my example/thought of being in a win-win situation, Charles correctly expanded my horizons with his example, and I thank you for that

Okay, I am here now. I really started this with Genesis 1:1 and look what has happened so far. I have some thoughts and questions that I wish to present, and will do so as time permits. I have so many honest thoughts and questions regarding “creation”, but there is so much more beyond that, and I am thirsty to have my mind/soul challenged and so honored to have found this site!

Blessings upon you all!
Stormer (aka Jim)

By Stormerorlando (wrote 3 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 9/2/2009 22:08 pm

Hey Stormer, glad you could join us. My pastor graduated from Tenn. Temple in the late 60’s or early 70’s. First let me encourage you to get back in the battle. Lord knows it can be a struggle. Many times I think I know how the children of Israel felt when they came to Jericho (they were going in circles). But we must remember, we’re waiting for that final trumpet blow! There’ll be a shout, and we’ll enter that city! Until then my friend, just keep walking.

Jason W. Elder
Jaysun1980@hotmail.com

By Jason W. Elder (wrote 314 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 9/1/2009 23:52 pm

Stormer, thanks for your posting. I agree with you that this is a very civil debate.

First, let me clarify something. I don’t need exhaustive and undeniable scientific proof to believe in anything. If something can be touched by everyone in the same way, it’s real. If something can be expected to behave in a predictable manner, it is real. Light, darkness, heat, fever, wind…. all these are real because everybody experiences them more or less in the same manner. When it comes to abstract things such as everlasting life and purgatory and the 72 virgins, it’s a different story. Now people with different beliefs and I don’t think anybody has the right to say who’s right and who’s wrong until anything is proven to be right or wrong.

You wrote “This is really a cheap shot. But it IS LOGICAL. Better to place my “faith” in an unproveable thesis, ergo “God” and be right, than to be WRONG. The consequences can, literally, be eternal.”

It is NOT a cheap shot. It’s the “LOGICAL” part that I have a problem with. First of all, if your thesis is unproveable, how can you know it’s right? Secondly, believing in God just to be “on the safe side” is not safe but actually dangerous.

Let’s take the example of someone who is born in a strict Moslem world where he is expected to believe in God and follow the dictates of his church. These dictates may include strapping explosives around his waist and killing people. Now this guy is “playing it safe”, right? He doesn’t really want to kill people but he is afraid that if he doesn’t do “the right thing” he will burn forever in hell. He is following his thesis. He blows himself up because it’s better to place his “faith” in an unproveable thesis, ergo “God” and “be right”, than to be WRONG!

No, dear Stormer. I can’t buy your logic. I’d rather go with the flipside of what you said: IT IS BETTER TO BE RIGHT THAN TO PLACE YOUR FAITH IN AN UNPROVEABLE THESIS.

By Charles Fiott (wrote 1421 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 9/1/2009 20:57 pm

Hello!
I have just finished reading (from #1 to #128) every post and I am very impressed by several things:
1. The general level of intelligence of each person.
2. The sincerity of personal beliefs.
3. Above all else, the relative civility maintained here.
It is so refreshing to be able to read so much and not be totally side-tracked by unending innuendoes, insults, etc., as is so common on so many sites. In other words, I feel like I am witness to some real adults having a genuine, spirited, open and honest debate.
I note that it has been a couple of months since the last posting, so I hope all of you have not gone away.
Just a few words about myself, by way of introduction. I am, first and foremost a Christian, and a very conservative one at that. I graduated from Tennessee Temple University in 1982, then managed to spend 20 or so years messing up my own life. Lots of reasons (excuses) for this, but I am finally inching my way back to the right path. I am a victim of “church fatigue”, and it has been a long time since I darkened the door of one;however, one step at a time. LOL! Think of this as “group therapy”!
Seriously, during the process of “listening” to the entire Genesis 1 debate, my mind was drawn to the following scripture:

8 ¶Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

While it is absolutely true that charity (Love) is the greatest among the weapons in the arsenal, it is, to my way of thinking, faith that drives us onward.

Actually, faith and hope are two items pre-packaged in every human soul. From the atheist to the most “godly” person that ever graced this planet, ALL had limitless supplies of faith and hope, for there is no distinction in the quality of these items. One does not need to ascribe to any particular creed or belief to possess exactly the same capacity for faith and hope. Like air, or gravity, all you have to do is simply be alive to partake of these qualities.

Obviously, it is the choices made in the application of these qualities that makes all the difference in one’s life.

From the moment one wakes up, there is an automatic faith in place. It might even be fair to use the terms of “presumption” or “assumption” (and, LOL!, we all KNOW about the old joke concerning assumption). But it is the nature of our humanity to live life on “auto-pilot”. Life is all about “hope”, and the faith that that “hope” will simply/naturally come to pass. We waste no brain cells comtemplating our hands….until one of them becomes injured…and then their value is foremost in our minds.
I never thought twice about my ribs…until I had the misfortune to fall and break 4 of them…and I soon learned to truly appreciate their function!
This is life. We are, we do, we live (99% auto-pilot), as we have a “norm” to guide us. We are given, often, the gift of “accidents” to help us focus on the details. Life, by its very nature, puts us in the position of usurping God’s place. We take for granted the “natural” as a normal condition of living.

I have to say that one who is truly consistent in preaching the doctrine of only trusting provable science should utterly deny the reality of electricity. It is. It exists. Yet it has NEVER been satisfactorily and properly explained “scientifically”. You hit the switch and, if there is a bulb in place, light appears.

To address the use of the above verses, I find the following, which really does address most of the reality (and the futility) of ever hoping to solve the “debate” over creation (or any other matter involving “God”).

Life is truly a continuum. It never (really) looks back…it just keeps flowing on. What was ceases to be and is replaced, either by a pale copy of the past or a bit of seemingly refreshing “modernism”, although I do subscribe to Solomon’s wisdom in Ecclesiastes:

Ecclesiastes 1:9 ¶The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

I do believe that God has a great sense of humor, I think that He must engage in laughter to the point of tears, watching “His” creations run around and around the same old tired arguments about creation, God, etc.

IF I am the epitome of all that really is, I really need to have a total meltdown and just have the decency to disappear. And, with complete respect to Charles, that is the bottom line of what you are saying. I hope that you are greater and wiser than any and all real or imagined ideas concerning God. Because, sadly, YOU are all that YOU have. If that is enough, then enjoy.

This is really a cheap shot. But it IS LOGICAL. Better to place my “faith” in an unproveable thesis, ergo “God” and be right, than to be WRONG. The consequences can, literally, be eternal.

Okay, just an introduction. You all are really great minds and spirits. I hope that I am not too late to the party. I will post this and see if any of you are still active.

Thanks for “listening”!
Stormer

By Stormerorlando (wrote 3 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 9/1/2009 16:28 pm

In Job 34:13 Elihu says,”Who hath given him charge over the earth?or who hath disposed the whole earth?”
Whom does the word”him” refers to in Job 34:13?
In the Bible of my mother tongue,I find that “him” is mentioned as “man”.
Please read that verse in the Amplified version(English).

By Alex (wrote 499 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 7/20/2009 04:37 am

Reference post #124:

God is the giver of life. He gave life to Adam. All rights including the right to life originate from God, the giver of life. ( Life is so precious that God gave detailed rules for it’s preservation, for example, a roof must have a parapret to save life. (Deut. 22:8)) There are no rights apart from God, who is the final and original authority. God gave authority to Adam:”And God blessed them, and god said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth and subdue it: and have dominion over……every living things upon the earth.” (Gen.1:28)Didn’t God endow Adam and Eve with full rights, all rights upon this earth? Man, by disobeying God, lost his authority to Devil, the father of all lies, the usurper of rights! God is now at work to restore all things through the redemptive power that is there in Jesus Christ our Lord.

By Jayant Christian (wrote 287 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 7/18/2009 21:53 pm

1)”God is a Spirit:and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and truth.”These are the words of Lord Jesus Christ.-John 4:24.
Read 2 Cor.3:17.
2)”…God is light,and in him is no darkness at all.”1 John 1:5.
“That was the true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world.” John 1:9.
Jesus said:I am the light of the world:he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness,but shall have the light of life.” John 8:12.
3)”….God is love…..” 1 John 4:16.This is a powerful verse and actually it has changed my life.
“But God commendeth his love toward us,in that,while we were yet sinners,
Christ died for us.” Romans 5:8

By Alex (wrote 499 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 6/8/2009 08:20 am

Teriq, in post 124 you had your three strikes and I think you’re out

1. You said: Adam being created in the image of God is one of many reasons that support the command “Thou shalt not kill”. A person should not murder another because he is then destroying someone made in God’s image.

This is an absolute non sequitur. Murder is wrong in Biblical and non-Biblical cultures alike. Whether the victim is made in God’s image has no bearing whatsoever on this fundamental and universal law.

2. You said: There is a difference between murder of an innocent person versus killing a guilty person.

Ok. So tell me, what was the “firstborn of the slave girl who is behind the handmill” (Exodus 11:5) guilty of? Why did God murder her child and so many other innocent children?

3. And finally you said this: I still conclude that the Bible is clear that there are rights such as a right to life.

And your conclusion is based on…..!!!??? You’re clutching on straws here. You have been unable to come up with any passage in the Bible that is “clear” about the right to life or the right to free speech or the right to anything. Neither can the ACLJ or anybody else, because it’s simply not there. I’ve read the Bible several times and I can assure you of this: the Bible is NOT about rights.

Three strikes!

By Charles Fiott (wrote 1421 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/25/2009 15:47 pm

Once more unto the breach…
I hope this will be my final post on this issue. So I’ll try to be clear as mud
1. Adam being created in the image of God is one of many reasons that support the command “Thou shalt not kill”. A person should not murder another because he is then destroying someone made in God’s image.
2. God did command killing, but not murder. The proper translation of the command is “Do not murder”. There is a difference between murder of an innocent person versus killing a guilty person. There are others that can explain this better than I, for example: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/notkill.html
3. My post #113 may have been confusing. My mind tends to switch tracks and my writing often reflects that. I began on the subjects of rights, but then I switched to freedoms. In later posts I offered the ’supporting witness’ of ACLJ who I mostly agree with. They are the ones who wrote that “religious freedom and freedom of speech are inalienable, God-given rights”. These people are Christian lawyers who I trust know how to defend this. The Bible does give believers the Great Commission; in order to fulfill it we need freedom of speech. There are many terms we currently use that can’t be found in the Bible (such as Trinity), but we can use reason/facts based on Biblical principles.
Finally, I still conclude that the Bible is clear that there are rights such as a right to life - it is I who is not clear on explaning it.

By Terik Q (wrote 65 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/25/2009 14:45 pm

Dear Teriq, I think we’ve been getting off the subject of Genesis 1:1, but you keep bringing arguments that baffle my logic. In post 122 you said the following:

“This command [Thou shalt not kill] can be combined with other verses such as Adam being made in the image of God. When verses with related issues are combined, one can use reason to reach certain conclusions: The command against murder along with other verses provide proof that life is precious to God and show that God gives everyone everytime everywhere right to life.”

First of all how is the creation of Adam in the image of God related to the fifth commandment? I just fail to understand any relationship at all. Please explain.

Second, we find many instances in the Bible where God commands His followers to kill their enemies. There is an instance in Exodus where God himself becomes the killer of innocent children (Exodus 11:4-5). Also, capital punishment seems to be a casual thing for God. According to the Bible even the offense of working on the sabbath is punishable by death (Exodus 31:14). So I just can’t see where you get this idea that life is precious to God or that He “gives everyone everytime everywhere right to life”.

In other recent posts you have insisted that freedom of speech and religious freedom are “God-given” rights. I have already pointed out that nowhere in the Bible does God specifically give us any right to freedom of speech (if you disagree with this, let me know). Let me add that God does not grant freedom of religion either. On the contrary He often orders his followers to destroy temples, religious icons, and people that do not honor Him. So where do you get the idea that religious freedom is a right given to us by God?

By Charles Fiott (wrote 1421 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/22/2009 13:29 pm

I’m no lawyer, that’s why I gave the link to ACLJ. Those who want answers about law & religion should ask people who study & work on that issue. (On another note, those who want answers about creation and young earth should check out Answers In Genesis). Following is my brief understanding regarding law in the Bible:
Biblical commands can be put into categories of moral, cultural/national, and ceremonial/sacrificial. Kosher laws, for example, might be ceremonial because one had to be clean to offer a sacrifice. And although we don’t sacrifice animals, there is a principle behind the law that we need to be aware of: Christ (innocent) provided the sacrifice for us (guilty). Many laws are BASED on principles from Scripture. There are also cultural laws that were meant only for ancient Israel. Yes - some laws are only for a certain people during a certain time and in a certain situation & place. Moral laws are the ones that we pay the post attention to. One of the most famous being “Thou shalt not kill”. This command can be combined with other verses such as Adam being made in the image of God. When verses with related issues are combined, one can use reason to reach certain conclusions: The command against murder along with other verses provide proof that life is precious to God and show that God gives everyone everytime everywhere right to life.

By Terik Q (wrote 65 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/22/2009 11:22 am

Teriq, where in the Bible does God give us any rights?

God gives us commandments and strict rules about what to eat and who to sleep with and how we spend the sabbath. At one point Jesus goes as far as giving certain rights to Caesar, of all people. But I can’t find any specific instance in the entire Bible where God gives me the right to free speech.

What is meant by the term “god-given rights” is the expectation that a free society has from its government. It usually includes free speech but it can also mean anything anybody wants it to mean. It’s a poltiical term, not a religious one. We expect and, sometimes, get rights from the government. God does not give us rights.

By Charles Fiott (wrote 1421 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 5/20/2009 19:01 pm