Jason, I’m not sure if I understand your comment on post 79. Can you elaborate please?

Thanks

Charles

Commentary by Charles Fiott
Posted on: 5/10/2009 18:46 pm

Wait, people don’t believe that only 8 people survived the flood? To say the least, that would do much damage to the typical principle (salvation wise) if people survived outside the ark.

Commentary by Jason W. Elder
Posted on: 5/10/2009 04:54 am

Ref:Commentary No.51
Charles,it seems you are not at all an analyst.

Commentary by Alex
Posted on: 5/5/2009 12:56 pm

Alex over the course of this thread I made several arguments about the authenticity of Genesis. In particular I have explained why I believe the genealogy of the Bible is scientifically erroneous (by millions of years), why the sequence of creation is scientifically flawed, and why the claim that Noah and his family where the only humans alive after the flood doesn’t hold any water (excuse the pun). You never addressed my arguments. What you don’t understand is that, deep down, I really wish I were wrong, however your failure to debate only sustains my feeling that my arguments are quite solid.

Is there anyone else who wants to seriously discuss these issues?

Commentary by Charles Fiott
Posted on: 5/4/2009 18:16 pm

Thank you for your nice comments,Jeyant Christian.
Jeyant,We believe Heb.11:3.”Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God,so that things which are seen were made of things which do appear.”
“I know whom I believed.” 2 Tim.1:12.We know our Saviour.We are having personal knowledge of our Lord as we are having living relationship with Him.
We believe that the Bible is inspired by God.2 Tim.3:16.
We know the Power of God’s Word.Heb.4:12.”For the word of God is quick, and powerful,and sharper than any two edged sword,piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit,and of the joints and marrow,and is a discerner of thoughts and intents of the heart.”
Charles has surprisingly accepted that a significant flood has occurred but he has not the mind to accept what the Word of God says about the flood.I think he has not the full details of the Babylonian flood.He is just making argument.Actually he is having questions about who were the survivors.The benefit of doubt must go to the document (Bible)itself.He has to accept the Genesis account of Flood.If he has not accepted it,we need not bother about it.He has to give account of himself to God one day just all of us have to do.
Jesus Christ has himself mentioned about the flood of Noah’s time.It was a warning message.Matt 24:37-39.:-”For as in the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of Son of man be.For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking,marrying and giving in marriage,until the day that Noe entered the ark.And knew not until the flood came,and took them all away;so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”
Luke 17:26,27.”And as it was in the days of Noe,so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.They did eat,they drank,they married wives,they were given in marriage,until the day that Noe entered the ark,and the flood came,and destroyed them all.”
There is another warning message in 2 Peter 3:6,7:Whereby the world that then was,being overflowed with water,perished;But the heavens & the earth, which are now,by the same word are kept in store,reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.”
We read about Noah’s flood in 1 Peter 3:20.”Which sometime were disobedient,
when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,while the ark was a preparing,wherein few,that is ejght souls were saved by water.”
We find Noah in the list of heroes of faith in Hebrews.”By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet,moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of the house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.” Heb.11:7.

Commentary by Alex
Posted on: 5/2/2009 13:46 pm

Thanks, Jayant. I respect your views. But we know that there were people living in various parts of the world BEFORE and AFTER the flood, so the Genesis story cannot be right.

Commentary by Charles Fiott
Posted on: 5/2/2009 12:57 pm

To Charles the Babylonian Tablets are true, but the Bible account of Noah is false! He has also cited the tradition of flood of European Rivers. I also know of the Hindu tradition in India that says that there was a great flood and Manu alone travelled in a boat on the flood waters. Some such similar tradition is also there in China. Well, you can say that since the Indian tradition has Manu as the person who survived, the Bible is false, as it gives the name Noah. However,after the flood, people migrated to various parts of the world. (the Indian histroy teaches that Aryan came to India some five thusand years ago from Middle Asia.)So different tradtions exist telling of a big flood. It goes to indicate that the Bible account is not mere fable. In any case, for science it is possible to prove that there are two eggs in a nest on a tree. For religion it may believe that a bird has soul in its eye, but cann’t prove it. But even science is not always final, for with further discoveries/inventions, some of the science theories are disproved or changed, for science theories are theories after all. Relegion rests on faith, evidence of the things unseen. I cannot be scientific always. Almost all cultures are filled with the stories of ghosts, though science has not proved their existance. Science deals with physical world and has no say in spiritual world. Even science has not been able to say fianlly the ultimate cause of the physical world. In fact, man has soul within him, but has very limited knowledge of what is there in the spiritual world. It is therefore futile to examine the religion on the basis of science. It is based on faith. But just it is based on faith, it is not that it is false. As for me, I know my God and that is sufficient for me. If someone wants to prove him, he is free to do so and discard him in recycle bin.

Commentary by Jayant Christian
Posted on: 5/2/2009 12:37 pm

Charles,
1) “The Genesis account of the flood is false.” It is your opinion only.But at least,You have accepted that a significant flood has happened in the Middle East.
Here is a norm which I heard of.It is something like this.”The benefit of doubt must go to the document itself;the critic must not take advantage of it.”

Commentary by Alex
Posted on: 5/2/2009 12:04 pm

Alex, you have the right to believe what you want, but how can you prove that Moses or anybody else was inspired? You just can’t.

The similarities between Genesis and the Babylonian clay tablets are a strong indication that a significant flood did happen in the Middle East. They are also a strong indication that the Genesis account is false. If people in Babylonia survived the flood to chisel their experience then it is not true that only Noah’s family survived it. I think this is a very sensible conclusion.

This is only one of many instances where Genesis accounts simply lack credibility. Some accounts, like the creation of the universe 6,000 years ago, have been proven false. Others, like God taking action to stop people from building a tower to heaven, are downright ridiculous. Genesis may be inspired to you. To me it just doesn’t make sense.

Commentary by Charles Fiott
Posted on: 5/2/2009 11:04 am

I)Charles,Let me try to explain something in the commentary made by Terik Q in post# 58.
1)2 Pet.1:21.”For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man;but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”
The writers were moved outside their own power and energy by the Holy Spirit and they wrote the Word of God.Thus God has communicated His truth through chosen men filled and led by the Spirit of God.
2 Tim.3:16.”All Scripture is given by inspiration of God.”=All Scripture is God breathed.
Inspiration is the influence of the Holy Spirit which enabled the holy men of God to record the infallible Word of God.
Revelation occurred when God gave the truth.Inspiration occurred when the writers of the Scriptures received the truth & recorded it.
2)The Pentateuch (the first 5 Books of the Bible)were written by Moses by the inspiration of God.
Num.12:8. “With him I will speak mouth to mouth apparently and not in dark speeches.”
Ex.33:11. “And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face,as a man speaketh to his friend.”
God revealed to Moses divine Truth.Moses had written what has been revealed to him.
Ex.24:4.”And Moses wrote all the words of the Lord.”
Ex.34:24.”And the Lord said unto Moses,Write these words…”
Num.33:2″And Moses wrote these goings out according to the journeys by the commandment of the Lord.”
Moses came to know some facts through tradition & testimony as Terik Q has said.Moreover,Moses was an eyewitness to many incidents which he had recorded in the Pentateuch as Terik Q has commented..But Moses has recorded only what has been revealed to him.
The point I want to highlight here is that there was no contradiction
between what has been revealed to Moses by God & recorded and what he came to know through tradition & testimony and as an eye witness.This is internal evidence.It is a test to test the reliability of a document.(See comments in post #66)
II)Refer commentary by Charles in post #70
It is learnt that during the last one century or so,many clay tablets have been found in the ancient sites of Nineveh,Babylon & Ur and other parts of the world.It is said that there was a tablet containing the Babylonian account of the flood.It is said that the Genesis account of the flood and the Babylonian account of the flood have many similarities between them.But Genesis account has the theological content and it has the interpretation of facts.Of course the Genesis account of the flood was written by the inspiration of God.

Commentary by Alex
Posted on: 5/2/2009 05:19 am