John 14: 28 Commentary

Tiuche,

My understanding has been enlarged.., a little. And I am blessed!

By Scott Dale (wrote 581 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/25/2012 15:44 pm

Scot Dale: Be aware that there are cases where God answered the prayer of pagans who did not know Him, nor Jesus Christ, nor have these pagans known the scriptures…we cannot put God in our pocket and limit Him…but that doesn’t mean that God have not given us the proper way of worshiping or praying to Him. That means we who had been called out, chosen and FAITHFUL(?)-we the true Church-are being called out to be faithful to Him by doing our best to do as His Word said we must do or pray!So if we see through the Word that praying to the HOLY MOTHER nor to the HOLY SPIRIT is not the way Jesus told us how to pray, should we insist by taking it for granted because we have our reasons?We stick with His Words unless the situation calls us to “SUFFER IT TO BE SO NOW!”

You said: In my opinion, the theology of prayer is as varied and abstract as that of the Trinity itself. Just exactly Whose voice is it we “hear” when we identify that God has spoken to us? Is it the Father (who is Spirit); Is it the Spirit of the Son; or is it the Holy Spirit? And when we “hear” this voice, is it not the same voice we also respond (pray) to?

My comment: Our Father in Heaven is not the Holy spirit, nor is Jesus the Holy Spirit…the Holy spirit is “God is spirit and all that must worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth!” Still we know the three are one though the two are persons while the Holy spirit is Spirit; so that to pray to one is to pray to all-still we are told to address our prayer to God our Father and sometimes to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ but never to the Spirit which is not a person! God have “SEVEN SPIRITS” which is ONE yet seven-and these spirits are holy.

We may see the hierarchal positions of the gods in John 1:1 revealed a little. In the Beginning was the…WORD…the WORD (not Jesus Christ in this point of time in the past) preceded even God-can you believe that? And the WORD (put in mind John6:63) was with God…and now the WORD was GOD- the WORD WAS GOD AMONG THE GODS? The ETERNAL CODE-the Word-has been magnified above all of God’s name-the ELOHIMS or the gods is obedient to that WORD…..which later was made flesh , revealed in our physical world in the person of Jesus Christ!

In case you may not agree with me with this last paragraphed-well it is just my opinion to enlarge our understanding a little. God bless Scott Dale!

By TIUCHE (wrote 3264 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/25/2012 13:58 pm

Tiuche,

In my opinion, the theology of prayer is as varied and abstract as that of the Trinity itself. Just exactly Whose voice is it we “hear” when we identify that God has spoken to us? Is it the Father (who is Spirit); Is it the Spirit of the Son; or is it the Holy Spirit? And when we “hear” this voice, is it not the same voice we also respond (pray) to?

Even if the voice were actually audible, would we know which Person the voice belonged to unless It specifically identified Itself? I would agree that the primary ministry of Jesus was intercessory and that the primary ministry of the Holy Spirit is to glorify Jesus and that this understanding can help us pray more confidently and effectively during this Age of grace; but even Jesus came to glorify the Father (Jn. 14:13) as the Spirit glorifies the Son and Jesus HIMSELF even answers prayer (Jn. 14:14).

Consider these verses:

“Even the Spirit of truth (the Comforter).., but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be IN YOU.” (Jn. 14:17)

“Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make OUR ABODE WITH HIM.” (Jn 14:23)

If the Father, the Son and the Spirit are all dwelling with/in the obedient believer; just exactly Whose voice is it we are hearing in those precious times of communion with God? I realize this is a very subjective question but this is why I bring it up. Even when we “direct” our prayers and petitions to the Father in the name of Jesus by the prompting of the Spirit; the objective reality might be that our theology of prayer is correct and consistent; but the SUBJECTIVE reality of experience is that we are communicating with a holy SPIRIT. What believer has not simply called out to God and gotten a response? What believer has not simply called out to the Father, or the Son, or the Holy Spirit and gotten a response? I have and I’m sure many others have as well. Is it because all Three are equally capable of answering prayer or is it because God the Father can transcend even our poor theologies and answer the cry of our heart. The bottom line is that either way, prayer gets answered and God gets glory.

By Scott Dale (wrote 581 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/25/2012 05:31 am

Scott Dale( Post #11): We do not pray to God the Spirit-He is within us teaching us true prayer to our Father and to our Lord Jesus Christ (the two persons). Tractorman I believe agrees with this thoughts when he said in one post that we don’t pray to the Holy Spirit directly-prayer is always address to our Father or in some cases to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! I believe too you already know this basic truth! On this wise I think it would be foolish for us to address our prayer to the MOTHER or the TRINITY! Despite the fact that the BLESSED MOTHER is a person for she is not God and despite the fact that the Holy spirit is God for He/or IT is not a PERSON!

Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words…

The Holy Spirit-the Spirit of Truth- makes us millions of believers ONE with God the Father & our Lord Jesus Christ. God’s Word is SPIRIT- it is the manifestation of what HE WILLS, when we accept and agree with HIS WORDS-the incorruptible SEED- then that SEED is sown in our hearts-making us into the very character and image of the invisible God like our Father in heaven and our Lord Jesus Christ! Let us leave the TRINITY behind instead let us stick with the simple but life giving Words of our God:

For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)ut to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.1 Corinthian 8:5-6. and,

Philippians 1:27 Then, whether I come to see you or whether I stay away, I may hear all about you-that you are standing firm in one spirit, struggling with one mind for the faith of …
Ephesians 4:4 And that you would be in one body and One Spirit as when you were called in …. of one heart, and of one soul, of the same mind, and having the same affections …
Philippians 2:2…make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose.

By TIUCHE (wrote 3264 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/24/2012 23:57 pm

SCOTT DALE

here is something so many people don’t notice concerning the dove at our LORD JESUS CHRIST baptism.

first off, the dove was a symbol of the holy spirit and was a sign unto john the baptist himself alone; who was to witness and testify to those that this man; JESUS CHRIST; was the messiah that the jewish nation was waiting for.

did anyone else notice that the very heavens opened up and GOD’S voice stated that JESUS CHRIST was his son and was very well pleased in him. no one else noticed the dove or the voice from the heavens above them. in fact john the baptist had to state this to the gathered crowd 40 days after our LORD JESUS CHRIST returned off the mountain after his 3 temptations from the devil.

some say well that can’t be. then please feel free and explain why did only andrew and peter after 40 days follow our LORD JESUS CHRIST? if everyone saw the dove and heard the voice wouldn’t the jews knowing the prophecy of the messiah; would of followed our LORD JESUS CHRIST. better yet; wouldn’t word of JESUS CHRIST have traveled far and wide of this great miracle from the heavens and the voice of GOD confirming his son. yet even andrew and peter had to be told by john the baptist that our LORD JESUS CHRIST was the long awaited messiah.

it’s funny how we miss the very message of the hour because we can’t cast ourselves aside.

also the dove was a sign of the ultimate sacrificial lamb. this is the only time the dove and lamb are seen together. this is also a type or shadow if you will of how we as true sons and daughters are born again and go throughout our life here. when we humble ourselves as a lamb we receive the dove.

in other words; when we sacrifice ourselves as a humble lamb we shall receive the glory of the dove… the holy spirit. this is to say we live in the power of the spirit and not in good works or how well we now scriptures; just as paul stated in 1 corinthians 2:4-5; and my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the spirit and of power. that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of GOD….. amen.

also scott dale; you are correct in saying that the holy spirit is GOD and JESUS CHRIST.

this is hard for many to grasp.

GOD the fathership in heaven ( LORD )
GOD the sonship on earth ( JESUS )
GOD the holy spirit in us ( CHRIST )

in other words GOD in three different positions; for instance GOD the father calls GOD the son; JESUS CHRIST; to write down some notes and JESUS CHRIST uses GOD the pen ( holy spirit ) to write the message.

or one could say as a father: i am a father, yet i am also a son, and i am the same spirit of my father.

even a mother could state: she is a mother, yet she is also a daughter, and she is also the same spirit as her mother.

this is also hard for many to grasp; that once born again; that same holy spirit has the very same power from the beginning of time unto now; and is the same manifesting and producing power of GOD.

faith is the key that unlocks everything.

By angel (wrote 400 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 1/13/2012 18:11 pm

Tiuche,

If, as the scriptures say, we can lie, resist, blaspheme, grieve and sin against the Holy Spirit as well as please and hear from Him; it seems fairly logical to me that we can also beseech Him and it strongly suggests that the Apostles would have done so.

But let’s be clear, the ONLY Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God Himself so in my understanding, praying to the Father in Jesus’ name is co-equal to praying to The Spirit.

By Scott Dale (wrote 581 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 1/13/2012 16:24 pm

Scott Dale, Re post#8: What am saying is I AGREE WITH YOU THAT GOD THE FATHER & JESUS IS GOD…and their HOLY SPIRIT is also God. But what i want to point out is that the Holy Spirit is not another person instead it is their Spirit in them!

What the trinity as a concept is teaching us that there are three person in the Godhead is like telling people that there are two person in one individual- the individual and his spirit. Would that make sense?

In teaching us to pray Jesus always told us to pray to OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN…asking it in Jesus name…we are told to pray to divine persons-to Jesus and to God the Father but never to the Holy spirit. Could you show me in the scriptures where a believer prays to the Holy Spirit? I believe there is none!

By TIUCHE (wrote 3264 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 1/13/2012 11:16 am

to all:

scott dale. here is something so many people don’t notice concerning the dove at our LORD JESUS CHRIST baptism.

first off, the dove was a symbol of the holy spirit and was a sign unto john the baptist himself alone; who was to witness and testify to those that this man; JESUS CHRIST; was the messiah that the jewish nation was waiting for.

did anyone else notice that the very heavens opened up and GOD’S voice stated that JESUS CHRIST was his son and was very well pleased in him. no one else noticed the dove or the voice from the heavens above them. in fact john the baptist had to state this to the gathered crowd 40 days after our LORD JESUS CHRIST returned off the mountain after his 3 temptations from the devil.

some say well that can’t be. then please feel free and explain why did only andrew and peter after 40 days follow our LORD JESUS CHRIST? if everyone saw the dove and heard the voice wouldn’t the jews knowing the prophecy of the messiah; would of followed our LORD JESUS CHRIST. better yet; wouldn’t word of JESUS CHRIST have traveled far and wide of this great miracle from the heavens and the voice of GOD confirming his son. yet even andrew and peter had to be told by john the baptist that our LORD JESUS CHRIST was the long awaited messiah.

it’s funny how we miss the very message of the hour because we can’t cast ourselves aside.

also the dove was a sign of the ultimate sacrificial lamb. this is the only time the dove and lamb are seen together. this is also a type or shadow if you will of how we as true sons and daughters are born again and go throughout our life here. when we humble ourselves as a lamb we receive the dove.

in other words; when we sacrifice ourselves as a humble lamb we shall receive the glory of the dove… the holy spirit. this is to say we live in the power of the spirit and not in good works or how well we now scriptures; just as paul stated in 1 corinthians 2:4-5; and my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the spirit and of power. that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of GOD….. amen.

also scott dale; you are correct in saying that the holy spirit is GOD and JESUS CHRIST.

this is hard for many to grasp.

GOD the fathership in heaven ( LORD )
GOD the sonship on earth ( JESUS )
GOD the holy spirit in us ( CHRIST )

in other words GOD in three different positions; for instance GOD the father calls GOD the son; JESUS CHRIST; to write down some notes and JESUS CHRIST uses GOD the pen ( holy spirit ) to write the message.

or one could say as a father: i am a father, yet i am also a son, and i am the same spirit of my father.

even a mother could state: she is a mother, yet she is also a daughter, and she is also the same spirit as her mother.

this is also hard for many to grasp; that once born again; that same holy spirit has the very power from the beginning of time unto now; is the same manifesting and producing power of GOD. faith is the key.

By angel (wrote 400 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 1/13/2012 02:43 am

Tiuche,

Re: post #7

By “Subjectively” I am not referring to my OWN witness or opinions, I am referring to the the witness of the Holy Spirit within me (Romans 8:16). Generally speaking, it is a PERSON that bears witness to something.

You ask: “If the scriptures attribute personality to the Holy spirit is it an accurate or objective conclusion that such makes the Holy Spirit a person?”

My answer is: Why not? Did Jesus not know that the many times He referred to the Comforter/Counselor of John 14 as a person would be terribly confusing to the disciples if the Holy Spirit was only an impersonal force of God?

Regarding the “dove” at Jesus’ baptism, can a spirit not take any form that he wants? “like a dove” is NOT a dove.

I can’t agree with you that our human spirit is NOT our person. In my opinion, it is our spirit that is the essence of our person. The world thinks our personality is only rooted in our soul. I don’t. (The nature of the soul without the reborn spirit is only godless).

Likewise, the personhood of Jesus is rooted in the Holy Spirit. “If you have seen me, you have seen the father”; “I and the father are one”; these verses could not be truthful if the Spirit in Jesus was not lock-step with the Father. And the only way for that to be perfectly true would be for them to possess the very same (Holy) Spirit (three in one).

By Scott Dale (wrote 581 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 1/13/2012 00:47 am

Scott Dale:

1). You said:
SUBJECTIVELY the Holy Spirit within me is a PERSON. I cannot think of the heavenly spirit that is within me as a mere force of God. It is the very Spirit of God and of Christ. The same Spirit that is in them is now IN me; the Spirit of Truth.

I ask: SUBJECTIVELY? Meaning your belief is based on your opinions or feelings rather than on facts or evidence.

2). You said:
OBJECTIVELY the scriptures attribute personality to Him. Even in the verse you site in Romans 8:15 which says; “… and by HIM (the Holy Spirit)we cry..,

I ask: If the scriptures attribute personality to the Holy spirit it is an accurate or objective conclusion that such makes the Holy Spirit a person?

The Holy Spirit also came down in the form of a dove does that make the Spirit an animal? Would that be an objective and accurate conclusion?

Every man have their own individual spirit, God the Father have His own Spirit, Jesus too have His own Spirit, does the Holy Spirit as a person have His own Spirit? Since our individual spirits are not persons, neither are the spirit of God or that of Jesus are persons…so is the Holy Spirit a person? Or is the Holy spirit the very spirit of God and Christ which dwells in them?

By TIUCHE (wrote 3264 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 1/12/2012 11:42 am

Tiuche,

Perhaps were just dealing in semantics. When I say that the Holy Spirit is a person it is because:

1. OBJECTIVELY the scriptures attribute personality to Him. Even in the verse you site in Romans 8:15 which says; “… and by HIM (the Holy Spirit)we cry..,”

2. SUBJECTIVELY the Holy Spirit within me is a PERSON. I cannot think of the heavenly spirit that is within me as a mere force of God. It is the very Spirit of God and of Christ. The same Spirit that is in them is now IN me; the Spirit of Truth. This is exactly what 14:15-26 is dealing with. Verse 23 nails it when Jesus says;

“If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make our ABODE (home) with him.”

If the “person-hood” of the Father and the Son does not reside in the Spirit that gave us new birth; where DOES it reside?

I’m sure you would agree that neither the Father nor the Son live IN you or I in any physical or material sense. Jesus is a MAN and cannot physically be more than ONE place at a time but by His Spirit he can and of course, so can the Father. Here we see the mystery of the Godhead at work: The Father and the Son dwelling IN the believer by the Holy Spirit. This is what the word “Trinity” refers to.

If you and I as born-again believers are NOT possessed by a PERSON, then what exactly is it that has gripped us so intimately and refuses to let go?

By Scott Dale (wrote 581 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 1/11/2012 19:46 pm

Scott Dale: Here is my answer to Tractorman in John 1:1 commentary which I believe could help explain what am driving at regarding the TRINITY!

I do agree with you that God the Father & Jesus Christ is God and that they are distinct persons but I do not agree with you that the Holy Spirit of God which reveals His Mind is a person.

1 Corinthian 2: 11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

John 6:63 The Words that I speak to you are Spirit and they are life…

Romans 8:15 For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The Holy Spirit is not a person….it His Holy thoughts in action…begetting us, guiding us into all truths…appearing in our foreheads us FIERY TONGUES…to enable us to deliver His Perfect Words-the tools by which thoughts are formed!

By TIUCHE (wrote 3264 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 1/11/2012 18:07 pm

Tiuche,

Why do you call this teaching “absurd”? The teaching is 3 PERSONS (or personalities) not 3 GODS. If the bible clearly attributes personality to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as well as the same attributes that God alone possesses; what else are we to think?

Prophet, priest and King are perhaps the anti-type in the OT. These three all had different offices but none were to operate independent of the other (though, because of corruption they did). If you will; they were the representative God-head of Israel.

By Scott Dale (wrote 581 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 1/11/2012 17:09 pm

Scot Dale: We have no disagreement at all that Jesus Christ is God…what am pointing at as an absurd belief is the belief that there are three PERSONS IN ONE GOD!

By TIUCHE (wrote 3264 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 1/11/2012 12:50 pm

“ISN’T SUCH A STATEMENT QUITE PREPOSTEROUS?” post #1

Tiuche,

How is it a preposterous statement?? God the Father is greater than Jesus positionally not essentially. If you really “want to stick to the Bible on this” then believe what Phillipians 2:6-7 have to say; “Jesus, who being in very nature God.., MADE himself nothing [by] taking the very nature of a servant”.

By Scott Dale (wrote 581 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 1/10/2012 16:37 pm

JESUS IS NOT CO-EQUAL WITH HIS FATHER ..He said it Himself :…MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I”.

With the extra biblical word to define God as a TRINITY where Jesus is made co-equal with His Father, would such a doctrine not conflict with the Scriptures? Why won’t we just stick to the Bible on this since Eternal Life is dependent upon us knowing God…while Paul would say: For us we have ONE GOD THE FATHER…and ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST…majority of us would say: For us WE HAVE THE TRINITY AS OUR GOD-with the Father, The son & The Spirit co equal-three persons in one God! ISN’T SUCH A STATEMENT QUITE PREPOSTEROUS?

By TIUCHE (wrote 3264 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 1/10/2012 15:03 pm