Good comments from both Jeyant & Scott.Thank you.
Let me add some more passages for consideration.
“Jesus saith unto her,Woman,believe me,the hour cometh,when ye shall neither
in this mountain,nor yet at Jerusalem,worship the Father.Ye worship ye know not what:we know what we worship:for salvation is of the Jews.But the hour cometh,and now is,when the true worshippers shall worship the father in spirit and truth:for the father seeketh such to worship him.God is a Spirit:
and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and truth.”
John 4:21-24.
“….for salvation is of the Jews.” John 4:22.Please read Romans 9:4,5.
“……….and of whom concerning the flesh Christ came,who is over all,God blessed forever.Amen.” Rom.9:5.
Read Acts 4:12.
Jesus Christ has offered the atonement sacrifice for our sins and sat down on the right hand of God.Please read Heb.10:12.
“..we know what we worship..” John 4:22. “…I know whom I have believed.” 2 Tim 1:12.
“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:God was manifest in the flesh,justified in the Spirit,seen of angels,preached unto the gentiles,believed on in the world,received up into glory.” 1 Tim.3:16.
“Having therefore,brethren,boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,by a NEW and LIVING WAY,which he hath consecrated for us,through the veil,that is to say,his flesh:And having an high priest over the house of God;Let us draw near in full assurance of faith,having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience,and our bodies washed with pure water.”
Heb.10:19-22.
Please read Heb.4:14-16.
“For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched,and that burned with fire,nor unto blackness,and darkness,and tempest,And the sound of a trumpet,and the voice of words;which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them anymore:(For they could not endure that which was commanded,And if so much as a beast touch the mountain,it shall be stoned,or thrust through with a dart:And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said,I exceedingly fear and quake.)But ye are come unto mount Sion,and unto the city of the living God,the heavenly Jerusalem,and to an innumerable company of angels,To the general assembly and church of the firstborn,which are written in heaven,and to God the judge of all,and to the spirits of just men,made perfect,And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant,and to the blood of sprinkling,that speaketh better things than that of Abel.” Heb.12:19-24.

Commentary by Alex
Posted on: 6/8/2009 01:25 am

Yes, Scott, I bow down and worship our unsearchable God! ( He is unsearchable, or else He cannot be God.)There are Some more solid thoughts from Scott to meditate!

Commentary by Jayant Christian
Posted on: 6/7/2009 16:48 pm

Jayant,

Many thanks! You have presented this well and I feel a giant step closer to understanding it more fully. John 14:23 Jesus speaks of the Father COMING to US as opposed to 14:6 regarding us GOING to the Father. This is truly a startling thought! Can we fully grasp this? Is it intellectually attainable??

“O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen”

Perhaps, this is an appropriate time to worship the Lord.

Bear with me a little longer.
Moses led the children of Israel OUT of Egypt after the offering of the first-born male was complete (Passover). One would presume that this was a foreshadowing of our salvation through Christ. In fact, I believe Hebrews says as much. But how many of the children of Israel failed to walk in this new-found deliverance (salvation)? When Moses brought them to the Mountain, was he not, in effect, “bringing them to the Father”? Yet, they all refused to respond; they “begged that no further word be spoken to them.., the sight was so terrifying that Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.” And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but LET NOT GOD SPEAK WITH US, lest we die. And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not. And the people STOOD AFAR OFF, and MOSES DREW NEAR unto the thick darkness where God was.” (Ex. 20)

What is the parallel here? It seems like the people “followed Moses” out of Egypt (salvation), but then they refused to draw near to the Father at the Mountain of God. Were they “saved”? I know they did not enter the Promised Land (Numbers 13 & 14). In fact, they all died off in the desert except for the upcoming generation.

Part of me says I’m going down a rabbit trail and I can never fully understand these things and part of me says my Christianity is WAY TOO SHALLOW. In fact, I wonder if what generally passes for “christianity” today is only a pathetically dim reflection of what is described in the NT.

Thanks to Alex also. I know I will be meditating on this subject for quite a few days (perhaps weeks), trusting God for further insight.

Commentary by Scott
Posted on: 6/7/2009 04:34 am

Correction to post # 3, line 7,8 in the last para: Please read “we can go to the Son” in stead of “we cannot go to the Son”

Commentary by Jayant Christian
Posted on: 6/7/2009 01:31 am

Alex has given some verses to consider the questions asked by Scott. I will try to give some contribution in seeking the answers to the questions raised by Scott. This will also open up the way for reacting by others.

It is always good to consider the context. Jesus enjoined the disciples not to let their hearts troubled (John 14:1). Why were the disciples troubled? Because Jesus had told both the unbelieving Jews (John 7:33) and the disciples (John 13:33) that, for a little while, they would see Him, and that they would seek Him but they would not find Him, and that they cannot come where He goes. Jesus had earlier told that He has come from the Father (John 7:29) and that He would go from where He had come (John 6:62), that is He would go to the Father. All this was not very much clear to the disciples, but when they learnt that they would not see him, their hearts were troubled. See the same words did not trouble the unbelieving Jews for they did not love Jesus but, in fact, wanted to do away with him.

Jesus asked disciples not to be troubled, and why? Jesus makes it clear to them that He goes to the Father in heaven and that He goes there for a purpose. The purpose is that He goes there to prepare a place for His own. It is necessary for Him to go in their interest. He also told them that for a little while they would not see Him, but then they would see Him, but the world would not see Him(John 14; 19. This speaks of Jesus meeting His disciples after His resurrection. But even after that it would be necessary for Jesus to go to the Father and the disciples might have thought they would be left then all alone without Him. Jesus told them that He would not let them all alone. He would send the Holy Spirit, the comforter (John 14:26). In fact, He and the father would come to them (John 14:23). What is more he would come back to them (John 14:28) to receive them unto himself, so that they may be where he is! (John 14:3) So shall they ever be with the Lord (1Thess. 4:17). No more separation. Eternal fellowship is realized with the triune God. Thus “come to the Father” is all about the lasting relationship with God the Father and His Son. (1 John 1:1-4) It starts with the New birth by believing on the lord Jesus and is realized by the transformation (resurrection) and transportation to the Father’s house at the time of Jesus’ coming back and includes all that has to do with our relationship to God, like prayers, worship etc.

Going to the Father is the same things as going to the Son, and vice versa. Why? Because the Father and the Son are one (John 14: 7, 9, 10, 11, 20) Please also see John 6: 38-40, 44 and 10:28-30. He that has the Son has the Father and has eternal life (1 John 5:11, 12). We cannot of ourselves directly go to the Father, for He is heaven and beyond our reach him (Mt. 6:9; Romans 10:6,7) No body has seen Him, as He is invisible and spiritually transcendent, and only the Son knows Him and only the Son reveals Him (John 1:18; 5:37; 6:46). We cannot go to the Son and when we go to Him we get eternal life and going to the Son means going to the Father. For they are one. No son, no Father. Have the Son, have the Father. When we go to the Son we go to the Father and we are saved and have eternal life. But if we don’t go to the Son, we don’t go to the Father and hence eternally lost. We cannot and need not separate the Son and the Father, and we try to do so at the cost of our eternal disadvantage.

Commentary by Jayant Christian
Posted on: 6/7/2009 01:24 am

Scott,
I think you have asked some good questions.I am not answering your questions.Instead I want to point out some references.Let somebody answer the questions asked by Scott.
Jesus told the Jews.”Ye shall seek me,and shall not find me;and where I am,thither ye cannot come.” John 7:34.
Then said Jesus again unto them,I go my way,and ye shall seek me,and shall die in your sins:whither I go,ye cannot come.” John 8:21.
“Little children,yet a little while i am with you.ye shall seek me;and as I said unto the Jews,Whither I go,ye cannot come;so now I say to you.” John 13:33.(When Jesus spoke these words all the disciples except Judas were present.)
Jesus told his disciples,”And whither I go ye know,and the way ye know.”
John 14:4.
Thomas saith unto him.Lord,we know not whither thou goest;and how can we know the way?” John 14:5.The answer of Jesus is found in John14:6.

Commentary by Alex
Posted on: 6/6/2009 04:19 am

This verse and it’s context is precious and well known to many Christians, myself included. But I have a question about it. A question that I do not yet have an answer for. One that will very likely raise controversy but hopefully, controversy which results in greater clarity.

Is this a salvation verse? In other words; can someone be saved and yet NOT come to the Father? What does “come to the Father” mean? Is Jesus talking about when we “come to the Father” in prayer; or does he mean our spirit goes “to the Father” when we die? Or does Jesus mean physically going “to the Father” at the time of the resurrection? Or ALL of the above? But even if it does mean all these things (and perhaps more), does it follow that if we don’t “come to the Father” we must therefore be eternally lost (not saved)?

Commentary by Scott
Posted on: 6/5/2009 13:41 pm