I had never thought about it before, but Jesus talking to Jews when He said, “In this world ye shall have tribulation…”

Personally, I don’t believe the church is on earth anymore after Rev 4. “Come up hither…”(Rev 4:1)

But let me confirm one more thing, what do you believe the Great Whore in Rev 17 represents?

Commentary by Jason W. Elder
Posted on: 2/5/2009 22:43 pm

Mr. Elder,

Yes, that is my belief. In many different ways, Jesus warns or implores the saints to “be ready”. One must assume that means that some (perhaps many) will not be ready. This does not mean they are not “saved”, it just means they are not “ready” heaven. The persecution of the Tribulation will change all that. I believe Daniel 11:33-35 addresses this specifically. Again, the parable of the ten virgins speaks to this quite clearly.

When the Raptured saints are safely in heaven, Rev 12:11 says this about them; “They did NOT love their lives so much as to shrink from death”. This is what qualifies them to “be ready”. Sad to say, when the trial comes and evil comes to harvest, many of our brethern will love their lives MORE than death. “He who seeks to save his life will lose it”. (But the Bride MUST be made pure!)

An important point of distinction has to be made in all of this, however. The time of Tribulation for the saints is NOT the time of the wrath of God. In all of this, Daniel’s 70th week has NOT YET begun. Seals 1 thru 6 are opened during the Tribulation (persecution) of the saints under Antichrist (”in this world you will have tribulation”). When they are all killed after 42 months, the Tribulation comes to an end. Then seal #7 with the 7 Trumpets is opened and Daniel’s 70th week begins. The judgments of pure wrath with no mixture of mercy are poured out during all 7 years. (This begins with the sealing of the 144,000). Jacob’s Trouble occurs during the last half of Daniel’s 70th week (3.5 yrs). The time when Antichrist turns all his efforts against the Jews.

We must remember that though the saints are NOT “appointed unto wrath”, there is no guarantee that we will not suffer tribulation. Many have suffered horrific tribulation in the past and even up to today. The path to heaven for MUCH of the church at that time will be through the trials of the Tribulation.

Commentary by Scott
Posted on: 2/5/2009 05:54 am

So you believe that not all saved people will be raptured out before the onset of the tribulation?

Commentary by Jason W. Elder
Posted on: 2/5/2009 01:20 am

Consider:

The Woman is the Universal Church through out the entirety of the church age. In Rev 12, we see her in the future at the end of the age. This is the collective image of all 7 churches in Rev 2 & 3. This woman, therefore, represents a very large body of people.

The manchild, therefore, represents a smaller body of people that comes OUT OF the larger body of the woman all at one time. Specifically, verse 5 tells us EXACTLY who this is. By comparing verse 5 with Rev 2:26-27 we learn that this unseen, small body that comes out of the very visible larger body is nothing less than the “overcomers” of all 7 churches in chapters 2 & 3. The faithful HANDFUL that always have an “ear to hear what the Spirit is saying”

Futher evidence of this is found in Rev 3:21 and especially Rev 12:11 -the “overcomers” (”they overcame”).

In essence, this is a picture of the Resurrection/Rapture at the end of the age. The manchild (overcomers), through circumstances yet to be revealed, find themselves faced with certain destruction by Satan (antichrist) because they are destined to replace him in the strategic position of power he presently occupies (the heaven/air). But the sudden rescue of the manchild thwarts his scheme and instead of securing his position of power, he loses it completely and is cast down to the earth. This is a major defeat for him. A good illustration of this in type is Daniel 6, the entire chapter.

Of course, this interpretation means that not all believers will escape the Tribulation. But that’s exactly the point; for we find in the rest of Rev 12 through 13:10 that Satan immediately sets out to destroy the rest of the offspring of the woman (Tribulation saints). This is the warning of Jesus’ parable of the 10 virgins.

Commentary by Scott
Posted on: 2/4/2009 23:14 pm

Then I reiterate your own question: “who is the child of verse five?” If the woman is not Israel?

Commentary by Jason W. Elder
Posted on: 2/4/2009 22:25 pm

Mr Elder,
With all due respect, Larkin’s interpretation is full of holes. Consider:

1. Figurative language is never used to describe a PAST event. Figurative language never deals with history. It always points toward the future. Therefore, replaying the birth of Christ is pointless.

2. If the woman is figurative, then her child is also figurative. But Larkin would have us believe a figurative woman would give birth to a literal child. This makes a mockery of prophetic exegesis.

3. Regarding Larkin’s confidence that the Manchild can only be Christ, he must have overlooked the promise Christ himself made in Rev 2:26-27; “To him who overcomes.., I will give authority over the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter and dash them to pieces like pottery” JUST AS I have received authority from my Father.

4. Finally, Jesus wasn’t “snatched up” to heaven as soon as he was born. In fact, he wasn’t “rescued” at all. He was victorious when he ascended and was not escaping from the jaws of anyone. He ascended by his own authority.

One last point to consider. If Larkin’s interpretation is accurate, what benefit does his interpretation possibly bring to broaden our understanding of the Book of Revelation or any of the events of the Time of the End? His interpretation tells us nothing that we have not known before.

Commentary by Scott
Posted on: 2/4/2009 22:07 pm

I believe she represents Israel. But Larkin says it better than I can:

“Sun-Clothed Woman.”

This “Woman” is neither the Virgin Mary, nor the Church, she is Israel. We have only to be reminded of Joseph’s Dream of the “sun” and “moon,” and the “eleven stars” (Ge 37:9), to see that this “Sun-Clothed Woman,” with the “moon” under her feet and upon her head a crown of “Twelve Stars,” is Jewish in character. Joseph was the twelfth star. Israel is again and again compared to a “married” woman in the Old Testament, but the Church is a “virgin,” and only an “espoused virgin” at that. 2Co 11:2. This “Woman” is described as being “with child” and “travailing to be delivered.” When was the Church in such a condition? Paul says of Israel, “Of whom as concerning the flesh Christ Came.” Ro 9:4-5. And Israel looked forward to the time when she could say—”Unto us a Child Is Born, unto us a Son is given.” Isa 9:6-7. But before that could happen Israel had to pass through many sore afflictions and judgments. These were her “Travail Time.”

As the result of her “travail” the Woman brought forth a “Man-Child” who was to rule the nations with a “Rod of Iron.” There can be no question as to who is meant by the “Man-Child.” The 2nd Psalm (Ps 2) settles that. He is Christ, who at His Ascension was caught up and seated on His Father’s Throne.

After her child is delivered the Woman “flees into the Wilderness” where she hath a place prepared of God, and where she is fed for 1260 days. Here is where many interpreters make a mistake. They overlook the fact that between the “fifth” and “sixth” verses of this chapter the present “Church Period” comes in. Here is the “gap” between the “Sixty-ninth” and “Seventieth” Weeks of Daniel’s “Seventy Weeks.” John jumps over this “gap,” from the Ascension of Christ to the casting out of Satan, because he is not dealing in these Tribulation chapters with the Church but with Israel, and wishes to continue her history without a break. Here is further evidence that the “Woman” is not the Virgin Mary, for she does not flee into Egypt, but into the Wilderness, neither does she flee “with” her child, for that was caught up to the Throne of God; neither does she flee for her child’s “protection,” but for her own.

Commentary by Jason W. Elder
Posted on: 2/4/2009 21:33 pm

Angelo,
I believe the woman represents the Church.
The big question is, who is the child of verse five? What is your answer to that?

Commentary by Scott
Posted on: 2/4/2009 13:24 pm

Angelo Medure jr,
Well,You know the meaning of this verse.Post your comments here for the benefit of others & discussion..

Commentary by Alex
Posted on: 2/4/2009 06:50 am

I would like to hear what others think of this verse, I know what it means ao please email me back

Thank you

Commentary by Angelo Medure jr
Posted on: 10/9/2008 02:23 am