Christina,

In response to your previous and I assume your final posting . . . .

Let it be known that a woman (you called Bethula) “claiming” to know her children before they are born does not a prophetess make. It more often makes for a deceiver/con-artist looking for followers.

In addition, follower of said woman, “claiming” to be student of scripture, who advertises a woman “claiming” to be a prophetess (who has nothing of report verifying, proving, or demonstrating a prophetic anointing) does not a student of scripture make. It only makes said student of scripture an accomplice to a false prophetess.

I’m even more saddening when words meant to help are diminished or dismissed. My presentation of the Apostle John’s words in Rev 17 (that the 10 horns are leaders and 7 heads and end-time world government) was clearly ignored. More so, it was misdirected, either by purpose or by indolence. Rev 17 is John’s specific diffusing of who the figures/characters are of the 7 seals and 7 trumps, especially those figures found in Rev 12. By stating that Satan was the dragon of Rev 17 and neglecting any attempt to examine what John did say, you have affectively made the word of God of non-effect, at least in your mind. How you gamble your faith is one thing, but I’m responsible for anyone who reads this; and I say people must be more careful, diligent, and reverent of God’s word . . . . even at the risk of being long winded.

I’ve always found such interpretation methods most grievous. It’s dishonest and disrespects the time and effort God has people invest into His word. It also detracts from the purpose of this web-site, which is to examine and weigh what God’s word reveals . . . . not what some Jerusalem news paper printed back in the late 1990’s.

And for what it is worth, I still cannot find anything in the Internet about this alleged prophetess. Worst yet, the anemic information presented to advertise said prophetess is completely absent of this person even acknowledging Jesus in any sense.

Truly and correctly has Jesus prophesied that many would come as ministers (people coming in his name), proclaiming Jesus as Messiah, who were actually bringing deception. He also said in the same breath that many false prophets/prophetess shall rise, and shall deceive many. This alleged prophetess so matches what Jesus gave his life to defend against.
As for me and my house, I’d think twice about exalting this phantom or con-artiest to prophetess status. I would first find a bit more proof that this person exists, and if so, I would then look for something of greater substance proving she has a prophetic office. Failure to do so leaves people vulnerable to the aforementioned deception Jesus spoke of.
But then again, it’s your eternity you’re gambling with; unless of course you’re peddling this to other people. I’ve got ocean-beach property in Arizona to sell all of you if this is the standard people use to test the spirit.

By the way . . . . who’s the father of her alleged manchild and her alleged remnant? . . . . . Just a crazy question that needs to be asked in the light of such insanity.

Commentary by Fozman
Posted on: 7/13/2009 06:35 am

Everybody, I just wanted to say that it has been fun but I think it would be best if I stopped here. I just wanted to show another point of view that might actually end up working out. Keep an open mind and keep studying. Goodbye and God bless.

Commentary by Christina
Posted on: 7/10/2009 15:40 pm

Foz, thanks for the apology. To answer your question about the beast of 17..This portrayal of the beast here is written after the angels had already let go of 7 last plagues. That is at the end of the story. I am trying to say the woman of 12 dies during the sixth seal (which is another mention of the sun moon and stars) which is at the beginning of the war. Even in Genesis when they mentioned the sun and moon and stars God was refering to real people in that family while discussing the future of that same family. The internet has not pulled a fast one on anyone on this being a real woman bc no one wants to believe it bc of what meanings it would change if I were right concerning what the church believes in many ways, but I don’t think this should threaten anyone. Like I said.. there was always something in the pages of the bible about prophecy that we would one day come to understand and that would happen by letting go of a few misconceptions. And Jayant might not be able to find much about the sun, moon and stars but try googling the phrase “woman in travail”. She is all over the bible. All over almost every end time prophecy. So I think the connection between 12 & 17 is only satan and that he affects both partys but I would agree with you on the fact that it would be very important to be wary of the differences of the two which are many. As far as testing her..I would imagine that if God took the time to tell us about her ahead of time then he will surely prepare her for what comes her way. She is a prophet.(Isaiah 66) Again, that is how she knew her children b4 they were born. Find the woman in travail text. Read it with your understanding. then stop and read it with my understanding. Her being real..You might be surprized.

Commentary by Christina
Posted on: 7/9/2009 19:25 pm

Jayant,
Which church might that be. There’s 7 types of them list in Rev 2 through Rev 3. The last church is spit out of God’s mouth. Don’t think that one will be his bride. She is to be tried in the fire, according to Jesus.
Until people can explain the parameters I’ve brought to light, I simply cannot put any confidence into the convenient statements being made.
I thought the entire purpose of these blogs is to dig into scripture (ALL OF SCRIPTURE) and weigh them against all contingencies.
That isn’t happening.

Commentary by Fozman
Posted on: 7/9/2009 05:12 am

can’t we debate another topic?

Commentary by Jason
Posted on: 7/9/2009 05:03 am

Christina,
I stand corrected concerning your expression of the age of this so called prophetess. I found your blog #86 somewhat confusing, and I misinterpreted what you said (my mistake). Thank you for your correction.
As far as being “long winded” . . . . your missing my approach. Scripture is interpreted line upon line, precept upon precept. Systematic logical reasoning requires the same time & carefulness. I employ a rigorous standard when exploring God’s word, especially the prophetic. All scripture must fit, all scripture and its content must be addressed and justified. I am thorough, if not simplys out of respect for God’s word and those I share it with. I feel God would require no less from me.
As far as our conversation . . . . what I do not understand, is what part of the 10 horns (10 kings) on a 7 headed beast (end-time world government) is not understood? As a student of scripture, I thought you’d see these two figures/metaphors being specifically identified and explained. God gave the decipher of these two figures in Rev 17. I assume He did it to assist us unravel Rev 12 (and the rest of the book). To ignore it would be to ignore God’s word and His purposes for having these facts penned. Maybe he placed these deciphers there so we would recognize the signs of the times when they manifest. I suspect it would also help His people from running after those who would exalt themselves a prophet or prophetess, deceiving well meaning believers eager to idolize anything mysterious if it felt such honored God.
Well, unless the media and all the Internet has pulled an outrageous deception, there is no evidence that the 10 rulers and a manifest world government (of Rev 12) are ruling this planet. (Not yet anyway.)
The text of Rev 12 tells us that the woman is still only pregnant when these two end-time political groups finally do come to power. Thus, how can the manchild have been born back in the late 90’s (your words were, “She fled after the baby was born that would still have been back in August/ Sept 1996.”) when scripture tells us he/it (the manchild) will not be born until AFTER the 10 rulers and the last world government come to power?
I really do not know how to ask this any simpler.
As a student of scripture, I hope you’d respect God’s deciphers (Rev 17) for these scriptures and at least attempt to address these blatant discrepancies with other scriptures. Until I receive scriptural correction, I’m reluctant to embrace those news paper articles you mentioned that spoke of Virgo, and however this alleged prophetess is made known to the world.

Ps. I apologize if you think I called you an occultist, I did not. The truth be known, the majority of Christians ignorantly participate in the Occult. Most do not realizing the majority of Christian traditions & customs originated from the Occult as opposed to the Hebraic-Christian-based church practiced by the Apostles & disciples of Christ. There is a reason it is called the Roman Universal Church.
If people are running after the mysterious (the word Occult means, the mysterious), and they are running after it without testing the spirit or because it has a warm & fuzzy religious/spiritual feeling to it, then it rates as “mysterious”. A prophetess with no substantial proof is running after the mysterious. The church of Christ is full of such this.

Commentary by Fozman
Posted on: 7/9/2009 05:02 am

Once again I would submit that the church of Jesus Christ is His bride and so she cannot be the WOMAN of Rev.12.

Secondly, the only other place we have the reference of Sun, Moon and Stars is in Genesis 37:9,10, where sun is Jacob, his wife is moon and eleven stars are the brothers of Joseph. Joseph himself being the twelfth star. here is the clear indication of the nation of Israel.

In keeping with the number of prophesies in the Bible about the nation of Israel, we cannot avoid the resurgence and revival of the nation of Israel in 1948! This is something unbelievable to human eyes!

It seems to me that before the establishment of Nation of Israel in 1948,the biblical scholars might have been skeptical about the fulfillment of the prophesies about Israel and they interpreted them spiritually to support the scriptures.

God has his plan about Israel and also about the Church that includes Israel as well. In the end time Israel will be in the front line to be finally brought in the one fold!

Commentary by Jayant Christian
Posted on: 7/7/2009 16:39 pm

First of all, I am not an occultist. I am a student of scripture. I am no more chasing after fairy tales studying it than anyone else. Also, I didn’t mean the woman is 2000 years old. I said she is a descendant of the remnant of the 12 tribes of Judah. In addition, there is a war in HEAVEN with the angel Michael, but there is WWIII on earth that happens.This BOY leads that earthly army.. And there is an over abundance of information that supports what I am saying but you are all so busy chastising me that you never asked me how I even came to my conclusions. The war is on Earth! People are fighting for their lives so you need to start considering the difference between what happens here and what happens in heaven. You want to know what is really bizarre? For all your calculations and study none of the answers ya’ll have presented even came close to making prophecy easier to understand. In fact I found them longwinded and harder to understand than the prophecy itself.. At least mine makes sense. Even if you don’t have the sense to realize it or the aptitude.

Commentary by Christina
Posted on: 7/6/2009 18:32 pm

Christina,
First, the woman is a legend . . . . I would not invest my life and faith into even the thought of a 2000 year old woman who is running around making babies. (And dare I ask the question, who’s the father of this alleged child and the alleged remnant?) I would require some substantial evidence that a 2000 year woman is alive before sharing such with my friends. God would not allow this, and doesn’t. Rev 12 is metaphoric in expression, just as it pretty much is in every other chapter of the book of Revelation. The woman of Rev 12 is a figure and type of a soon-to-be-real-organization. The metaphor (of a woman being a religious organization/church system) is used throughout scripture; both Old Testament and New Testament. 2000 year old people are not . . . . not even Adam or Moses or Jesus or anyone up to modern day would be allowed be excused the same fate that all other humans are required to experience by God (taxes & death). And the only reason I’m addressing this issue is because I’ve done so with so with many other confused people who love to run after fairy tales and the bizarre . . . . all of them found wanting in the end.
This is definitely Occult teaching. (That’s the kindest language I can find to describe it). I would strongly recommend anyone exposed to this to test the spirit before proceeding one step further. And my gut (or should I say the Spirit) tells me that this may not be the only Occult you are involved with.
Be careful.
In addition: The manchild of Rev 12 does not fight in any war after its birth. Michael does. Read the text. Those of the manchild company are the raptured saints. Scripture seems to indicate that they will return with the Lord to destroy those who come against the prince of peace; after which they will rule and reign with the Lord, with a rod of Iron.

Commentary by Fozman
Posted on: 7/6/2009 10:58 am

Fozman..

No there isn’t anything on the internet, I know.. I looked too, but it says in Isaiah that you would “see what you had not heard and understand what you did not know”. Even Jayant is here to consider those things. When I read your comment I thought that your points were sincere and very intelligent and worthy of discussion. I do believe she is a real person. I also think that satan is the same beast in 12 is the same as 17, but the difference is how satan views these women. At the beginning she is pregnant, but she is also in labor about to give birth and does. The actions of the beast are marked throughout the war so one reference to the activity of Satan does not necessarily mean you can link the two events as simultaneously, only that they have a common denominator. In reference to the child..if he was born when the confict starts he would not be old enough to fight for many years. He would have to be born years before the war starts..Because even in that chapter it says the boy is born to rule…someday. Bethula is in Virgo. That did absolutely happen in ‘96. If this was a metaphoric woman she could be pregnant for years, but this woman is real. She gave birth whenever it was time and that time was to prepare for the gov’t you speak of. If we are in the end days now I can promise you all the people are on earth right now even if we don’t know who or where they are right now, but they are all here to play their parts when it happens. The woman and child must be too. They are our defense. The child being born as the action starts would actually make his arrival late.

Commentary by Christina
Posted on: 7/5/2009 15:58 pm