Revelation 12: 1 Commentary

Hammer! Diese Story hätte ich garnicht für möglich gehalten

By Spiele (wrote 1 Bible Commentary - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/31/2011 16:52 pm

Hi Scott,
As I have come to understand the last week of Daniel, it applies to Jesus’ mission on earth. A seven year plan. He was anointed (baptized) on His 30th birthday as is usual for Jewish rabbis at the end of the 69th “week” and was to teach for the next 7 years. But in the middle of it (after 3-1/2 years) he was “cut off” (killed). His death as the lamb of God ended the sacrifices and left the holy of holies (where the sacrifices were performed) desolate and unnecessary. Remember the veil covering the sacrificial table was torn apart when Jesus died. But He did not die for Himself - He died for mankind.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Now, the part about the prince destroying the city refers to the Roman army that would eventually destroy Jerusalem and the temple, justas Jesus predicted in the Olivet prophecy.

Interestingly, if you go forward 3-1/2 years from the crucifixion you get to the stoning of Steven. Before that event, the apostles only preached to the Jews, but after that it was preached to the gentiles primarily. This is the point where the true church switched from the Jews to the Christians. This was the end of the 70 weeks.
It’s as simple as that. No 2000-year jump in time. No antichrist, etc. All that comes later in the book. The 70 weeks are all about the messiah.
Daniel’s longest prophecy ended in 1844 when “The sanctuary was cleansed.” It too, was continuous. 1844 marked the beginning of the 7th day Adventist movement. Before that all modern churches were polluting the sanctuary (God’s church) with pagan Sunday worship. The 7th day movement restored the true sabbath, thus cleansing the church from the last major pagan practice.

Hope this gives you something to think about. When I came to understand it changed my whole perception about the tribulation - how it will begin and how long it will last.

But that’s another blog topic…

By Jimbo (wrote 22 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/30/2011 19:58 pm

Actually Jim,Scott,Jayant and everyone else, Herr Line says: “Thanks to you, I finally grasped that”

By Roland G (wrote 1416 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/29/2011 22:21 pm

Jim, Herr Line says: “Thanks to you, I finally grasped that”

By Roland G (wrote 1416 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/29/2011 22:19 pm

I believe that was a “Thank you” from Herr Line

By Jason (wrote 314 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/28/2011 16:33 pm

Dank dir, endlich habe ich das begriffen

By Line (wrote 1 Bible Commentary - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 3/28/2011 13:01 pm

Jim,

Sorry about the misunderstanding but I think you’ll have to try and explain it again (if you’re up for it). Everytime I try to figure out what you’re getting at.., I can’t.

What I THINK you’re saying is this:

-Daniel’s prophecy is 70 weeks of Years (or 490 years). With this I fully agree.

-The first 69 weeks culminate in the anointing of Jesus. (I tend to think it culminates in the crucifixion; the “cutting off”. But the overall timing is essentially the same).

-That leaves one more week in the prophecy; the 70th week (or 7 years). At this point it seems to me that you are saying that the 70th week began right after the 69th week or sometime not much later (at the collapse of the Roman empire?).

-The 1260 days of Revelation refers to this same 70th Week period (or half of it. Time, times and the dividing of time).

If this is what you are saying, then you must also be saying that the 70th week is half over and that the tribulation has begun (if you’re not, please correct me). It’s at this point that it seems you have morphed Daniel’s 7 years into 2400 years (not 70 like I said previously). If this is so, It must rely on the interpretation of Revelation to mean the duration of the period of the Catholic church (specifically, which scriptures lead you to this conclusion?).

If you’re not saying these things, perhaps we should just end the discussion because I’m just not getting it.

Lastly, the reference to the “one hour” of power that the kings receive with the beast- I have no reason not to believe that it literally means “one hour”. Why shouldn’t we believe it? “Can a nation be born in a day?”. Can a virgin deliver a child?

By Scott Dale (wrote 496 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 12/30/2010 04:24 am

Scott,
I didn’t say the 70th week of Daniel will be 70 years long. A year for a day makes it 7 years instead of 7 days. Everyone agree with that. The first 69 weeks are also 69 weeks of years or 483 actual years. The question here is when to use it and when not to. The bible states the formula but does not say when it should be ignored. I find that most people ignore it when it doesn’t fit their interpretation.
For example, Jayant says we can toss it out in any prophecies that weren’t “sealed.” That’s just a lame excuse to make it seem to work in his interpretation. If you find a bible verse that confirms this I will gladly stand corrected.
I’m afraid that if you don’t understand that the catholic church (and the Vatican, which actually a political empire based on a religion - it is a member of the U.N.) is part of the Book of Revelation, then you are missing the main message of the book. Unfortunately, this will be true for more than 90% of Christians and nothing I can say will change that. (But I’m trying).
May God bless all of us…

By Jimbo (wrote 22 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 12/28/2010 08:14 am

Jim,

Thanks for the explanation in #199. Our differing perspectives really are mutually exclusive. I can’t agree with the 1260 YEAR interpretation on a number of levels:

1. I can’t agree with your deductive analysis of Daniel’s 70th week morphing in 70 years instead of 7.

2. I see the 3.5 year period as still future (whether ‘prophetic’ years or literal years).

3. IMO, the Holy Roman Empire (Catholic Church) is not even part of the prophecy in Revelation. The empire spoken of is firstly a political and commercial empire. It is also a religious empire but it is born of a religion that far pre-dates catholicism.

Earlier, I think you were right when you said that we should probably agree to disagree. It appears that we’re on two completely different playing fields.

Shalom

By Scott Dale (wrote 496 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 12/28/2010 02:17 am

For Daniel, the prophecies were to be sealed up, so we may see there the year/day formula, but not necessarily in Revlation where the commandment is not to seal the prophecies.

By Jayant Christian (wrote 287 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 12/27/2010 21:41 pm

The Year-day formula can be applicable when the context made it clear. In the book of Revelation, we have the two periods of 3 years and a half each, making it seven years. These two periods are mntioned as , ‘forty two months’, ‘1260 days’ or ‘time, times and a half time’.

By Jayant Christian (wrote 287 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 12/27/2010 21:33 pm

Scott,
The year-for-a day formula is to be used in all matters of prophecy, not throughout all prophetic books. In the case of Daniel, there are stories such as the lion’s den and the furnace that do not describe prophetic events, therefore the rule does not apply. So when Daniel says he prayed for 21 days, we can take that literally.
As for seventy sevens, the sevens refers to seven days or a week (before the formula). So it really means 70 weeks or actually seventy weeks of years. There can be no doubt about this as the first 69 “weeks” pinpointed the date in 27AD when Jesus was baptized or “anointed” to begin his ministry. If the last week refers to the tribulation, then we must assume that it also is not a literal week either.
So in Daniel 7:25 where he speaks about the end of the Roman empire where the iron of the statue turns to iron mixed with clay, he is talking about the Holy Roman Empire which Rome became after it collapsed into ten kingdoms. In Dan 7:25…

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

He is referring to the 2nd beast of Revelation here and he says it will last 3-1/2 prophetic years or 1260 literal years - exactly the duration of the Holy Roman Empire. This 1260 year period is mentioned 3 times in Revelation and every time it refers to the Holy Roman Empire. Revelation is a continuation of Daniel. The beast with ten horns and 7 crowns is the same, although many try to say that it becomes something completely different in Revelation. But God is not trying to throw us a curve here, we are supposed to recognize this fact when we read Revelation, but only if we already understand Daniel. It was written this way to throw off the Roman authorities who no doubt were reading his papers to see if he was writing anything derogatory about the empire. In fooling them he unfortunately fooled many people today as well.

When you apply the prophecy code, all of Revelation falls neatly into place and you discover that most of it is now history - a true testament to the knowledge of God.

See: http://theprophecygroup.wordpress.com/about/21-2 for more info on the code.

And what about the following:

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

Surely this does not refer to one literal 60 minute period of time. There must be some formula in use here as well. Using the year for a day this could mean a time frame of 360(5) hours or 15 days. Since this is still future prophecy we will have to wait and see, but it makes better sense than 60 minutes, wouldn’t you agree?

So I am sticking with the code - it comes straight from the bible, it wasn’t conjured up by anyone trying to make their theories fit. And it works. That’s the best part.

God Bless…

By Jimbo (wrote 22 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 12/24/2010 01:47 am

Jim,

I’m a little unsure just why you use a year/day formula at all. I can sort of understand a 1000 year/day formula (2Ptr 3) but what is the primary basis that you rest upon that determines a prophetic day really means a year? Even Daniel’s prophecy speaks of seventy “sevens”; not seventy weeks. When does the formula apply because the word “day” is used an awful lot throughout the bible? You say, “It should be used in all books of prophecy..,” but if that’s so, did Daniel, in chapter 10, pray for 21 years instead of 21 days? How do you know when to apply it?

By Scott Dale (wrote 496 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 12/23/2010 15:09 pm

Scott,
I disagree with your assertion that the day-for-a-year formula must be specified by the author and is only valid in Leviticus and Ezekiel. If this were so the 70 weeks of Daniel must also be literal and thus the tribulation will only last 7 days, not 7 years.
I have noticed that most people only use the formula when they feel like it or when it better fits their interpretation of scripture. It should be used in all books of prophecy and in my interpretations the formula always works perfectly. There is no need to try to come up with conditions list to tell you when to use it and when not to. If this were true then the bible would explain it for us. Without a conditional list it must be always or never, but if it is never, then it wouldn’t have been mentioned in the first place. So we are left with always, and therefore we should look for the fulfillment based on that fact. Many folks I’ve talked with believe that nothing past Revelation 3 has yet happened, so it is easy for them to say it will all happen between now and the second coming and to make it fit, the formula must be tossed out. I assume you are such a person, therefore your mind is set and you are content to wait it out and then say “See, I told you so.” Until then we will have to agree to disagree.

By Jimbo (wrote 22 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 12/23/2010 08:54 am

Jim,

I’ve got some time to revisit your last two posts.

Honestly, I’m baffled why you should say I’m busted. The Daniel prophecy is given as seventy weeks of years. This can be shown to be true in any number of ways. In other words, the entire prophecy covers 490 years. But no where in the prophecy does it say that these years are consecutive. Rather, they are cumulative. 69 weeks transpire and are fulfilled at the death of Messiah. This leaves just one more week to bring in everlasting righteousness. But this 70th week (7 years) has not yet started. The sign of it’s beginning and end are quite clear but most will not understand it. This prophecy has nothing to do with a year/day formula. In fact, I know of only two places in the bible where such a year/day formula exists and neither one has to do with Peter.

Regarding the year/day formula in Revelation; it is not warranted. The year/day formula is only warranted when the immediate context expressly says so (as in Leviticus and Ezekiel). Revelation clearly counters such a notion. It emphatically says 3.5 years; 1260 days and 42 months; all describing the same event. There is no way these prophecies refer to anything but 1260 literal days.

By Scott Dale (wrote 496 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 12/23/2010 06:39 am

Sorry about the sarcasm but don’t take it personally. I always liked Don Rickles so I sometimes emulate him.
But I do get frustrated with people who deny the year for a day formula, yet no-one thinks the tribulation will last one week. It took me a while to wrap my head around it but now that I accept it it is much easier to put prophesy into proper perspective. The correlation between Daniel and Revelation is well documented, but a complete lecture on it takes many hours and I know because I have listened to hundreds of hours of lectures and then read the bible for myself to prove or disprove the theories.
The fact is, they can all be proved from the bible interpreting itself and from standard history books. If you want to know where I learned much of what I know go to www.keyofdavid.com and order a few dozen booklets on the matter. Most of what they have been teaching for over 60 years is now coming true in world politics, after they were laughed at by most Christians. After a few months or years of intense reading perhaps you will come to some new conclusions on this matter. I know it took me almost 5 years from when I began as a life-long catholic to get to where I am today and I am attempting to explain some of what I have learned on my own blog page at http://theprophecygroup.wordpress.com/about/.
See what you think and be the first to blog back on this site.
Jim

By Jimbo (wrote 22 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 12/6/2010 21:55 pm

“You’re busted, dude”??

Do I detect a sarcastic spirit? Even if I am “busted”, why do you write in such terms? Who does it benefit except your own ego? Are you just here to win an argument?

I’m off to work right now. I will respond to your “bust” later. In the meantime, perhaps you would care to eloborate on the reasons you rejected my comments because your “reasons” seem rather lame.

By Scott Dale (wrote 496 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 12/6/2010 15:58 pm

Scott,
I read your old comments and I have read the theories long ago and rejected them for the reasons I mentioned earlier.
As for jettisoning the year for a day in Daniel and Revelation, listen to what you said earlier…
Commentary by Scott
Posted on: 3/21/2009 12:15 pm

Note: The “overcomers” are raptured BEFORE the Tribulation; the believers that go THROUGH the Tribulation are resurrected at the end of it; and the 144,000 who are sealed (ch. 7) even go through the 7 year period of God’s wrath (Daniel’s 70th week) and are on earth to WELCOME Christ when He returns. So in otherwords, there is never a time when some Christians are not on the earth.

Commentary by Scott (end)

You’re busted, dude. You state quite clearly that the 70th WEEK of Daniel is 7 YEARS, not 7 DAYS. You quite clearly use the year for a day conversion here. The same 70 week prophecy covers the time from the order to rebuild the temple at Jerusalem after the end of the Babylonian captivity until the anointing of Jesus in 30AD. If not, the 70 weeks would have ended 2500 years ago.
You are using it when it suits you and rejecting it elsewhere. If you fail to be consistent then you will only come up with a messy hodgepodge of an interpretation stitched together with some verses and ignoring many others.
God is not inconsistent nor is he messy. It is all much simpler than most people want to make it out to be, but everyone loves a great mystery, so they tend to muck up the true story and pretend they have found some clever solutions. Its all overactive imaginations - a typical problem in modern times.
But I’m sure you have some hi-tech formula for determiningexactly when and where to apply the day-to-year formula, so enlighten us, won’t you?

By Jimbo (wrote 22 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 12/6/2010 15:45 pm

Jimbo,

You said:

“If Christ is soon to return, there is no way the Book of Revelation is all future.”

I never said it was “all future” in OUR day; however, it WAS all future when John recorded it. Most of Chapters 2 and 3 are fulfilled.

“the fact that there is a 1,260 year time frame mentioned twice in Daniel and twice in Revelation.”

I suggest you jettison the 1 day=1000 years interpretation. It’s not valid in Revelation OR Daniel.

“I’m afraid that you’re assumption that all prophetic books are pure future and can’t contain a recap of history..”

Please read my comments more carefully. If you know the difference between prophetic symbolism and metaphors; you will also conclude that NO prophet has ever used symbolism for a past event. The prophetic books contain lots of history but it is never portrayed symbolically.

“If Revelation 12 is not describing the birth of the savior I would like to hear just what you think it describes.”

Go back to the first page of this thread and read through pages 3 or 4.

By Scott Dale (wrote 496 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 12/6/2010 13:58 pm

Scott,
I have heard of two Vatican theories about the Book of Revelation - one says it has all happened before it was written and that the pope is the returned Christ. The other is that nothing in it has yet happened. Both are crazy and requires pulling out a few quotes and disregarding everything else. The catholic church uses the latter to say that Jesus will never return and the popes will reign on earth forever. I’m not buying it.
Many people believe that the entire book of Revelation will unfold in a few years. After all we only have a short time left if you believe we are in the last generation according to the Olivet prophecy. But they do not take into account the fact that there is a 1,260 year time frame mentioned twice in Daniel and twice in Revelation. If Christ is soon to return, there is no way the Book of Revelation is all future. After all, all prophecy has to begin sometime or else it is worthless.
If Revelation 12 is not describing the birth of the savior I would like to hear just what you think it describes. After all it must happen very soon and even the first life of Jesus lasted for 33 years so this prophecy had better get cracking if you are correct. I’m afraid that you’re assumption that all prophetic books are pure future and can’t contain a recap of history or the present (of the authors time) has led you an interpretation that will simply never begin. The pope would be proud of you though, so you hang in there.

By Jimbo (wrote 22 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 12/6/2010 00:32 am

All Scripture has ONE interpretation; but it may have many different applications.

The Interpretation of the woman is Israel… Though certain things about her may certainly “apply” to the Church; the nation of Israel and even, I suppose Mary.

By Jason W. Elder (wrote 314 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 12/3/2010 21:03 pm

Jimbo,

A couple of challenges to your interpretation of the Woman. You said:

“In prophecy, “woman” always refers to a church, or more correctly God’s people.”

But Rev. 17 is all about a Woman who represents anything BUT God’s people. You also said:

“Much of this chapter (12) was history, not future prophecy since it was written 97 years after the birth of Jesus.”

However, no part of chapter 12 could be HISTORY unless, of course, your interpretation (”This verse illustrates how Israel gave birth to the savior..”) is correct. But in order for that to be so, you would have to upset the whole of the Book of Revelation that emphatically states in chapter 1 that it is all prophecy. Furthermore, in every instance throughout the Bible where a prophet uses symbolism, not once is it ever used for purposes of HISTORY; rather, it is ALWAYS used for purposes of future events. IMHO, NO part of chapter 12 has happened yet.

By Scott Dale (wrote 496 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 12/3/2010 14:00 pm

While there are many dual references in the bible, this is not one of them. In prophecy, “woman” always refers to a church, or more correctly God’s people. Before Christ was born, this was the Israelites but after the birth of Jesus the church changed to the Christian church. Christ’s intention was not to create a new religion but to change Judaism but things got messed up by the Roman emperors and later followers, so there was the split we have today.
This verse illustrates how Israel gave birth to the savior and how Jesus and his flock were hated by Satan. Of course this involves Mary and the nation of Israel as well as the Holy Roman Empire where the early church resided and which has now become the Vatican empire, so to speak. Much of this chapter was history, not future prophecy since it was written 97 years after the birth of Jesus. The main part of the prophecy is verses 14 and 17. In verst 14 we read:
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
This is a clue to the upcoming beast in chapter 13. We see that the true church (referred to as a “remnant”) is protected from the devil for what adds up to in prophetic years (1 day = 1 year) 1,260 years, the exact duration of the Holy Roman Empire.
How did the Holy Roman Empire (the Vatican church) become the beast? Just read verse 17:
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Here we read that the true church (a small remnant of the early church) keeps the commandment, therefore the apostate church does not. Is this true? Well, the early Christian church was forced to merge with Roman paganism by the emperor Justinian when he created a single religion for the empire. They kept the Roman holy day - Sunday, as they were sun worshippers, and they refused to destroy their idols and statues of their gods so the early church officials moved the sabbath to Sunday and erased the second commandment (no graven images) in order to comply. They also adopted the Roman festivals of Saturnalia and Ishtar and turned them into Christmas and easter, something God is not to happy about. These transgressions will be destroyed as we read later in Revelation about the destruction of “Mystery Babylon” which refers to an ancient religion from the time of Nimrod which led to Baal worship. It eventually filtered down thru successive conquests into the Roman empire and now still exists in many of today’s churches.
As for so called “Apparitions of the blessed virgin Mary” I don’t believe that any were actually Mary but more likely the work of Satan himself, as some sort of dodge. According Jesus himself, those who have died are all “asleep” awaiting resurrection at his second coming. Therefore Mary is, like all the saints, still asleep. She is not the “Queen of Heaven” as the catholic church teaches. That title was originally given to Semiramis (wife of Nimrod and mother of Tammuz - the false savior) and was part of Roman paganism that blended with the early church. The catholic church is Babylon and its paganism will be destroyed when Jesus returns to marry his true remnant.Praying to Mary (or any saint or dead person) is a violation of the second commandment, but oh wait… it doesn’t exist according to the catholic bible. Does anyone see a problem with this? So what is an “approved apparition? You just have to look at who is doing the approving and you will find the root of the problem.

By Jimbo (wrote 22 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 12/3/2010 12:04 pm

Jay,

The symbolic woman of Revelation 12 cannot simultaneous be the Church; the nation of Israel and Mary. It must only be one of the three; or NONE of the three. There is NO biblical symbolism that has multiple meanings. God is not the author of confusion.

By Scott Dale (wrote 496 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 12/3/2010 05:51 am

She is Mary is Woman revalation 12:1
The Ark of the Covenant as described in the Old Testament Book of Exodus was the sanctuary for the Holy of Holies, the tabernacle in which was the dwelling-place of the Lord. In the Book of Revelation, the Ark of the Covenant precedes the “Woman clothed with the sun,” as described in the above passage. Just as the Ark of the Covenant was the dwelling-place filled by the presence of the Lord God, the Blessed Virgin Mary became the dwelling-place for Jesus Christ, the Word made Flesh, as described in the Gospel of Luke.

Who is the Woman clothed with the sun? St. John in his Gospel was the first to implicitly refer to Mary as the new Eve, the woman of Genesis 3:15. St. John’s Gospel refers to Mary, the mother of Jesus, as woman at the wedding feast at Cana (John 2:1-5), at the Cross (John 19:25-26), and here in Revelation 12:1. The word woman suggests deep symbolism, as “woman” was not the customary or polite way in Semitic cultures to refer to a mother. Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ, the Messiah who will rule with an iron rod (Psalm 2:9), and who is caught up to God and his throne (Revelation 12:5). Reaffirming the Tradition of the Church, Pope Pius X in 1904, Pope Pius XII in 1950, and Pope John Paul ll, in his 1995 encyclical The Gospel of Life, stated that the Blessed Virgin Mary is the “woman clothed with the sun” in Revelation 12:1.

The woman also serves as a collective symbol for both Israel and the Church. She is Israel, the Daughter of Zion, the nation from whom the Messiah comes, the community of faith and obedience that awaits the birth of the Messiah (Isaiah 66:7). In Hebrew a country is expressed in the feminine tense, as mother of her inhabitants. The symbol clearly refers to the Church, for Jesus at the Cross gives his Mother Mary to his disciple (John 19:26-27). The Church are the faithful disciples of Christ, whom the dragon in Revelation 12:17 went “to make war with the rest of her offspring who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus.”

The ending of the twentieth century has witnessed an overwhelming number of reported appearances of Mary, suggesting we are entering the end times prophesied by the Book of Revelation. While public revelation - the Bible - is a matter of faith, one does not have to accept private revelation, such as apparitions. However, one cannot ignore the profound effect of historical apparitions such as Guadalupe, Lourdes, and Fatima. The following is a list of the approved Apparitions of Mary.

By Jay Kamble (wrote 4 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 12/1/2010 10:30 am

“woman clothed with the sun” in Revelation 12:1.
The woman also serves as a collective symbol for both Israel and the Church. She is Israel, the Daughter of Zion, the nation from whom the Messiah comes, the community of faith and obedience that awaits the birth of the Messiah (Isaiah 66:7). In Hebrew a country is expressed in the feminine tense, as mother of her inhabitants. The symbol clearly refers to the Church, for Jesus at the Cross gives his Mother Mary to his disciple (John 19:26-27). The Church are the faithful disciples of Christ, whom the dragon in Revelation 12:17 went “to make war with the rest of her offspring who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus.”

By Jay Kamble (wrote 4 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 12/1/2010 10:27 am

Mary is woman Revalation 12:1
1 Woman is Rev12:1 is woman who lead us Isreal and twllstar is show the 12 Disiple of Jesus.
She is able to birth of Criest.Mary Gauide to disple of Jesus and Rev. 12:1 woman is symabole of thes.St jhon chapter 2.
She part of Glory of the God. ark of the Covenent Rev 11:19

By Jay Kamble (wrote 4 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 12/1/2010 10:25 am

Hi lisent By God Grace its Mother Mary
The Ark of the Covenant as described in the Old Testament Book of Exodus was the sanctuary for the Holy of Holies, the tabernacle in which was the dwelling-place of the Lord. In the Book of Revelation, the Ark of the Covenant precedes the “Woman clothed with the sun,” as described in the above passage. Just as the Ark of the Covenant was the dwelling-place filled by the presence of the Lord God, the Blessed Virgin Mary became the dwelling-place for Jesus Christ, the Word made Flesh, as described in the Gospel of Luke.

Who is the Woman clothed with the sun? St. John in his Gospel was the first to implicitly refer to Mary as the new Eve, the woman of Genesis 3:15. St. John’s Gospel refers to Mary, the mother of Jesus, as woman at the wedding feast at Cana (John 2:1-5), at the Cross (John 19:25-26), and here in Revelation 12:1. The word woman suggests deep symbolism, as “woman” was not the customary or polite way in Semitic cultures to refer to a mother. Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ, the Messiah who will rule with an iron rod (Psalm 2:9), and who is caught up to God and his throne (Revelation 12:5). Reaffirming the Tradition of the Church, Pope Pius X in 1904, Pope Pius XII in 1950, and Pope John Paul ll, in his 1995 encyclical The Gospel of Life, stated that the Blessed Virgin Mary is the “woman clothed with the sun” in Revelation 12:1.

By Jay Kamble (wrote 4 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 12/1/2010 10:08 am

Battlefield

Dont try to explain your mind
I know whats happening here
One minute its love
and suddenly its a battlefield

One word turns into a war
Why is it the smallest things tear us down
My world is nothing if you dont
Im not here without a shield
cant go back now

Both hands, tied behind my back for nothing
Oh no, when we climb so fast to fall again
Why we gotta fall for it now?

I never meant to start a war
You know I never meant to hurt you oh-oh
Dont even know what we’re fightin for

Why does love always feel like a battlefield
A battlefield, a battlefield
Why does love always feel like a battlefield
A battlefield, a battlefield
Why does love always feel like?

Cant swallow our pride
Neither of us want to raise that flag
If we cant surrender than we both gonna lose
What we had, oh no!

Both hands tied behind my back for nothin
Oh no! These times we climb so fast to fall again
I dont want to fall for it now!

I never meant to start a war
You know I never meant to hurt you oh-oh
Dont even know what we’re fightin for

Why does love always feel like a battlefield
A battlefield, a battlefield
Why does love always feel like a battlefield
A battlefield, a battlefield

I guess you better get your armor
(Get your armor, get your armor)
I guess you better get your armor
(Get your armor, get your armor)
I guess you better go and get your

We could pretend we are friends tonight
OH, Oh, Oh
And in the morning we will wake up and be alright
cause baby we dont have to fight
and I dont want this love to feel like

A battlefield, a battlefield, a battlefield
Why does love always feel like a battlefield
a battlefield, a battlefield

I guess you better go get your armor

I never meant to start a war
You know I never meant to hurt you oh-oh
Dont even know what we’re fightin for…

If we are fighting each other, then we are on opposite sides…

By Christina (wrote 26 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 4/10/2010 06:24 am

I have also come across information about gov’t shills and other similar personalities that make careers out of being shills. Their attributes stand out as such: First, they befriend you. Then once they have courted you and gained your trust they blast you with number and name twisting. They “try to lead you” and if you dont listen then you are of the devil. Then they just push more verses of the bible along with other constant jargon that has no relevance in order to make you feel stupid. These “shills” make careers out of their vendetta to spread misinformation to the masses. They are bullies. They pretend they can teach you and lead the way when all they do is promote confusion. Dont fall into the traps of the leaders on this site. They are evil. Go somewhere else and dont let them patronize you. Read the earlier threads and see if I am lying. Fozman is among the worst. Do not trust him. Good luck to you all in legance to the truth. …Christina

By Christina (wrote 26 Bible Commentaries - permalink to this Commentary)
Posted on: 4/10/2010 04:54 am